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Thread: Lance Armstrong stripped of 7 Tour de France wins

  1. #11
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    Re: Lance Armstrong stripped of 7 Tour de France wins

    Quote Originally Posted by Heck Pup View Post
    I heard the USADA doesn't even have the authority to "strip" him of his titles. The French really have a boner for this guy.
    The French anti-doping agency has been wanting to do this for years. I heard today that if he officially gets stripped of his TDF wins he has to pay back any prize money he won. After professional cycling he was doing triathlons and just won the Ironman 70.3 in Hawaii at however old he is now. That gets vacated too.

    Interesting how different two sports can be, when we talk about professional baseball in the 80's and 90's they say all records should have an asterisk next to the record because they don't know whether or not that person was on PEDs. Here they have anecdotal stories and no actual proof he doped, but they take all the records away.

  2. #12
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    Re: Lance Armstrong stripped of 7 Tour de France wins

    Much like Barry Bonds, I believe he doped and I don't really care. It was just that era and the greatness was fun to watch. If you ain't cheatin' you ain't tryin'!
    Quote Originally Posted by Gatorbabe aka "Skankalicious" View Post
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  3. #13
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    Re: Lance Armstrong stripped of 7 Tour de France wins

    To me if he's innocent he shouldn't have given up the fight.
    YOU MESS WITH THE BULL YOU GET THE HORNS!

  4. #14
    WVUfaninKY3
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    Re: Lance Armstrong stripped of 7 Tour de France wins

    Quote Originally Posted by georgiaguy31015 View Post
    To me if he's innocent he shouldn't have given up the fight.
    He's fought for nearly 20 years, passed over 500 tests, yet they continue to go after him after he's retired. It was a never ending process that he's tired of fighting. At some point enough is enough. If this was a legal battle it would've been thrown out of court.

  5. #15
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    Re: Lance Armstrong stripped of 7 Tour de France wins

    Plus, it's cycling. Who gives a Fk?
    Quote Originally Posted by Gatorbabe aka "Skankalicious" View Post
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  6. #16
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    Re: Lance Armstrong stripped of 7 Tour de France wins

    Quote Originally Posted by WVUfaninKY3 View Post
    He's fought for nearly 20 years, passed over 500 tests, yet they continue to go after him after he's retired. It was a never ending process that he's tired of fighting. At some point enough is enough. If this was a legal battle it would've been thrown out of court.
    And he's paying for his lawyers himself. The anti-doping agency basically could accuse him as much as they want for as long as they want with no concern about personal finances. As I said before, I'm not sure if he doped or not, but damn near everyone else was at that time in cycling. There are several TDF wins that have been vacated by the sanctioning body that if they were to proclaim a new winner they'd have to go to the 5th or 6th place person to find someone that didn't dope.

    It's bad for the sport to press this issue. When Armstrong was riding and winning the TDF record numbers of people were watching in the states, which is unheard of for a cycling event. It brought a lot of people to the sport.

    Quote Originally Posted by dawgstud View Post
    Plus, it's cycling. Who gives a Fk?
    You should, the USADA has a contract with the US Olympic Committee. They test for PEDs on any athlete in an Olympic sport.

  7. #17
    WVUfaninKY3
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    Re: Lance Armstrong stripped of 7 Tour de France wins

    Quote Originally Posted by Subrookie View Post
    And he's paying for his lawyers himself. The anti-doping agency basically could accuse him as much as they want for as long as they want with no concern about personal finances. As I said before, I'm not sure if he doped or not, but damn near everyone else was at that time in cycling. There are several TDF wins that have been vacated by the sanctioning body that if they were to proclaim a new winner they'd have to go to the 5th or 6th place person to find someone that didn't dope.

    It's bad for the sport to press this issue. When Armstrong was riding and winning the TDF record numbers of people were watching in the states, which is unheard of for a cycling event. It brought a lot of people to the sport.



    You should, the USADA has a contract with the US Olympic Committee. They test for PEDs on any athlete in an Olympic sport.
    And with Lance they have done nothing but go strictly on accusations, no one has proven anything. What if they decided to tear Michael Phelps down like this? Cause they can

  8. #18
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    Re: Lance Armstrong stripped of 7 Tour de France wins

    I have been silent on this so far because of the strength of my feelings on the matter. I was not a big fan of Lance Armstrong in the early days as I considered him to be an obnoxious, brash young jackass who didn't respect the sport. Over the years of his domination of the Tour my attitude changed as his approach to the sport changed.

    My opinion of the actions of the USADA is lower than low. They have chosen an illegal (more on that below) witch hunt against one of the biggest names in sport because of attitudes such as that presented by Dawgstud above: it is cycling, nobody in America cares about cycling. So why have they done this? In order to make a big name for their agency... If their intention was to prevent American kids from using PEDs, then they would be going after the big names in the big four sports in the US: football, baseball, basketball and hockey. Those are the sports where the kids dream of making millions of bucks and so more kids are willing to risk their health by taking steroids in order to achieve those goals (look at the case of Kholton Houston who still isn't cleared to play because of the steroids taken in high school)

    How is this an "illegal witch hunt"? For one thing, the statute of limitations has expired on Lance's TdF victories. Another is the allegations of bribes being offered for former teammates to turn witness against him (Phil Liggett alluded to that in an interview after the US Pro Cycling Challenge in Colorado). Their announced witnesses are former teammates who became star riders after leaving Lance's team - and were caught doping when they achieved those post US Postal/Discovery victories. The only possible witness whose testimony I would believe is George Hincapie, whose testimony has not actually been released - just an announcement that he was interrogated in the matter. The USADA is not following the rules of the sport in this matter - and are sanctioning Armstrong because he demanded a fair hearing under those rules.

    Here is the text of the letter sent to the USADA by Armstrong's lawyers upon the decision by Lance to not comply with the USADA hearing:

    To: Mr. William Bock, III, General Counsel United States Anti-Doping Agency

    Dear Bill:

    The United States Anti-Doping Agency ("USADA") has presented our client, Lance Armstrong, with the following ultimatum: Agree, by midnight on Thursday, August 23rd, to submit to an unauthorized, ultra vires disciplinary proceeding against him by USADA or accept USADA’s proposed sanction. Given the assertion of jurisdiction and authority by the Union Internationale Cycliste ("UCI"), and its mandate that no one associated with UCI or USA Cycling should participate in such an arbitration, which was confirmed by USA Cycling, Mr. Armstrong cannot proceed into the arbitration. For that reason and based on the reservations articulated by Judge Sparks, it would appear that the appropriate next step for USADA would be to: a) follow the governing rules and submit the information and evidence to UCI for an independent review and decision; or b) take the jurisdictional dispute (which puts Mr. Armstrong in the middle) to the appropriate forum to resolve the issue, the Court for Arbitration for Sport (CAS).

    From the beginning, we have challenged USADA’s motives, methods, and authority to proceed with a so-called conspiracy charge against Mr. Armstrong and others. While the federal court concluded that it lacked jurisdiction to address these issues, its decision leaves no room for doubt that our concerns are well-founded. Indeed, the court’s observations make clear that Mr. Armstrong’s arguments that USADA lacks jurisdiction are compelling, and that USADA’s efforts to sanction Mr. Armstrong for alleged conduct dating back to before 1996, had "the smell of bad fish." The ethical implications for an inquisition based on hearsay from witnesses to whom USADA has promised leniency are questionable at best. As for the inclusion of foreigners who have never set foot on US soil, Judge Sparks detected a "stench". As the Court aptly put it, USADA’s conduct has been "motivated more by politics and a desire for media attention than faithful adherence to [USADA’s] obligations.

    USADA has no authority to proceed in this matter for all of the reasons we have set out in our previous pleadings, correspondence and my presentation in Federal Court. After Mr. Armstrong filed his federal court action, UCI, the international federation for cycling, and USA Cycling, the national governing body for cycling in the United States, both confirmed that UCI, not USADA, has the exclusive authority and jurisdiction in this matter.

    For reasons of its own, which Judge Sparks correctly characterized as suspicious and selfserving, USADA refuses to abide its own governing rules. Mr. Armstrong is not free to pick and choose the rules he must follow. Rather, as a retired international cyclist responding to charges about international events he competed in pursuant to his UCI international license, Mr. Armstrong must follow the rules and decisions of the UCI. Under all the applicable rules, USADA cannot proceed until it submits its evidence to UCI’s independent panel for review and adjudicates any disputes with that panel about jurisdiction, scope, the reliability of the evidence, and all related issues with UCI in CAS. At an absolute minimum, UCI and USADA should go to CAS to resolve the jurisdiction issue before any proceedings begin, a solution offered by UCI but rejected by USADA.

    A USADA proceeding would force Mr. Armstrong to arbitrate about jurisdiction in at least two, and perhaps three, arbitrations – AAA and then CAS – and perhaps later in a Swiss court. Then, when even USADA’s unfair multi-stage process confirms that USADA does not have authority or jurisdiction, USADA would then be free to submit the file to UCI for consideration and referral and start what would be another review by CAS prior to any dispositive proceeding. It is fundamentally unfair to put Mr. Armstrong through that costly and time-consuming process, particularly when it is already clear that USADA does not have authority to bring these charges. Mr. Armstrong will, instead, respect the decision of UCI with every confidence that his position should and will be vindicated through independent review by authorities with lawful jurisdiction over this matter. As you are aware, this has been the exclusive and required procedure invoked for every international cyclist except Mr. Armstrong.

    We believe UCI’s independent review panel would conclude, as any fair tribunal would, that the little evidence that exists is tainted testimony procured improperly from witnesses trying to profit at Mr. Armstrong’s expense and secured by improper coercion and promises to witnesses. It is also very likely that USADA’s blatant failure to observe its own 8-year statute of limitations by pursuing allegations over 17 years old would be summarily corrected.

    In one of USADA’s many recent press releases, USADA’s CEO, Travis Tygart, stated that "Mr. Armstrong agreed to play by the same rules that apply to every other athlete and we believe he should not be allowed to create a new set of rules that apply only to him." But if USADA were sincere about its repeated admonitions, then USADA should follow the governing rules, under which UCI has exclusive authority for this matter.

    Any organization that is serious about fair play, integrity, and respect for rules, would take Judge Sparks’ criticisms to heart, rather than waste taxpayer money in the vindictive pursuit of Mr. Armstrong. Sadly, based upon our experience with USADA over the recent months, we have little confidence that USADA has the institutional character for that task. Indeed, the Court further observed that "USADA’s apparent single-minded determination to force Armstrong to arbitrate’ indicated that USADA was "acting according to less noble motives" than to combat doping. To be clear: Mr. Armstrong is not requesting a AAA arbitration because -- unlike USADA – he respects the rules applicable to him and not because of any belief that USADA’s charges have merit or any fear of what a fair proceeding would establish.

    Finally, you are on notice that if USADA makes any public statement claiming, without jurisdiction, to sanction Mr. Armstrong, or to falsely characterize Mr. Armstrong’s reasons for not requesting an arbitration as anything other than a recognition of UCI jurisdiction and authority, USADA and anyone involved in the making of the statement will be liable.

    Very truly yours,

    Timothy J. Herman

    Robert Luskin
    Go Dawgs!

  9. #19
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    Re: Lance Armstrong stripped of 7 Tour de France wins

    I have to add a little more to this thread. Last month an old teammate of mine from the Classic City Bicycle Club in Athens (in those days there was no UGA cycling club - that was formed by some friends of mine a few years later) was fired from his job as the cycling coach at Ft Lewis College in Colorado. He was implicated in the Levi Leipheimer doping case (another former teammate of Armstrong's). Rick Crawford had been a cross country and distance specialist at UGA before he became hooked on cycling. He went on to become an accomplished triathlete and even coached Lance himself in triathlon before Armstrong moved on to professional road racing. I am sorry to see Rick caught up in all this, but to me it is a testament to the desire among serious athletes to get an "edge" over the competition.

    I never doped myself... at least not with any performance enhancing drugs. I do recall a teammate on my case "Brad, you could be a pretty good cyclist if you'd give up smoking that dope!" I rode because I loved it - racing as training for my long distance camping tours. I saw no need to take drugs to improve my riding, but pot helped me ignore the discomfort of the saddle on a long ride (or the discomfort of hours of riding in the rain, etc).

    Still, I knew a lot of guys who would do what they could for an edge. A typical trick among amateurs in my day was to take No-Doz just before a race. Caffeine helps you burn fat, and the pills would kick in about thirty minutes into the race. Indeed, the CI and USADA have limits on how much caffeine you can legally have in your system when you race.
    Go Dawgs!

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