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Thread: The Third Reich, the USSR, and the Anglo ruling class.

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    The Third Reich, the USSR, and the Anglo ruling class.

    I am reading an interesting book that covers the correspondence between FDR and Stalin during WW2 called My Dear Mr. Stalin by Judith Butler. It brings up the fact that many in American and British ruling classes actually supported the Third Reich and wanted it to destroy the USSR.

    FDR did not however and the book details how he had to find loyal lieutenants to work with him in the government to administer lend lease effectively so to allow the USSR to roll back the Nazis invasion and defeat the Third Reich.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lend-L...e_Soviet_Union

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charle...st_involvement

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America_First_Committee

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_...ental_collapse

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Plot

    This Anglo elite support was the real reason for appeasement of the Nazis early on and not any sort of pacifism that arose as a result of the carnage of WWI. I recently saw it touched on in the film The Remains of the Day too.

    Now that is something that is not taught in high school history classes. I wonder if Betsy DeVos would support that being changed? I suspect not.

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    Re: The Third Reich, the USSR, and the Anglo ruling class.

    "When Stalin made a heavy-handed joke one evening to the effect that he was in favor of liquidating fifty thousand German officers, Churchill was outraged and angrily said he would never approve. Roosevelt, aware of Stalin’s mindset, knew that he made the remark, in Bohlen’s words, “in quasi-jocular fashion, with a sardonic smile and wave of the hand, . . .meant . . . as a gibe at Churchill.” The president casually offered a compromise: only forty-nine thousand should be liquidated."

    Apparently FDR and Stalin had a lot of laughs at the expense of the aristocratic British bulldog. You always see him frowning in the pictures of the Big Three all together. He didn't get his way most of the time.

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    Re: The Third Reich, the USSR, and the Anglo ruling class.

    Before WW2, Americans were more closely aligned with fascism so our isolationist policy was a convenient excuse. Politics was dominated by industrialists that saw labor unions as socialist propaganda.
    Logic gets you from A to Z, curiosity takes you everywhere else

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    Re: The Third Reich, the USSR, and the Anglo ruling class.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spock View Post
    Before WW2, Americans were more closely aligned with fascism so our isolationist policy was a convenient excuse. Politics was dominated by industrialists that saw labor unions as socialist propaganda.
    Right, a lot of them wanted a Third Reich like reaction to the Great Depression in response to the greater working class political organization that it brought about. Luckily, the more liberal portion of the capitalist class joined with the newly better politically organized working classes to form the New Deal coalition and fascism was averted in the United States. This lead to the nation allying with the USSR and the UK to defeat it in Europe as well.



    This book that I am reading states that there was great resistance to the US/Soviet alliance in the State Department and among the top brass of the military. FDR had to find loyal lieutenants to administer the war aid to the USSR to work around the resistance to it. This makes sense considering these institutions were dominated by the upper classes back then even more so than they are today.

    That is something to think about whenever an ignorant or willfully misleading right winger tries to claim that the Nazis were "socialists". They certainly had a lot of upper class supporters both in Germany and abroad for that to be the case. In reality, fascism was the last refuge of capitalism in every place that it developed and the people at the top recognized that all over.

    The Nazis definition of "socialism" was quite different from the traditional definition of it on the left. It basically amounted to an end of class politics sans any attempts to create greater economic or political equality in society for most of the party leadership. The Nazis, being racist elitists, thought of the upper classes as having gained their positions largely on the basis of merit. To try to change this natural order of things would be foolhardy in their view.

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