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Thread: Mueller. Just a reminder

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    Mueller. Just a reminder

    This is the kind of person he is before the wolves come baying to try and tear down his credibility.



    Robert Mueller might just be America’s straightest arrow—a respected, nonpartisan and fiercely apolitical public servant whose only lifetime motivation has been the search for justice. He was the most influential and longest-serving FBI director since J. Edgar Hoover himself, and someone who has settled since his retirement from government in 2013 into being that rare voice-beyond-reproach that companies and organizations recruit to lead investigations when they need to tell shareholders or the public that they’ve hired the most seasoned and respected person they can find, someone who will pursue a case wherever it leads without fear or favor. He became the first FBI director to serve a complete 10-year term since Hoover, only to then see Barack Obama reappoint him for a special two-year term, a decision that required a special act of Congress and made him the only person to be appointed head of the FBI by two different presidents, of different parties....

    What concerned Comey and the Justice Department’s Office of Legal Counsel was that the NSA program appeared to go far beyond what was allowed for domestic surveillance—and without radical changes, they thought it was both unconstitutional and illegal. Ultimately, though, it wasn’t Jim Comey’s arguments, legal or political, that stopped the Bush White House in its tracks on STELLAR WIND.

    It was Bob Mueller.

    In the final hours of the hospital showdown, as more than a dozen FBI and Justice Department officials readied letters of resignation—a potential political catastrophe amid that spring’s presidential reelection campaign that would have made the Saturday Night Massacre look like a minor D.C. tremor—Comey met privately with President Bush, in a situation oddly not too different than the one he’d later find himself in with President Trump during discussions about the Michael Flynn investigation.

    In Bush’s private dining room, the president was warm and kind, saying that Comey should let him take the burden of the program’s reauthorization. Comey, a religion major at the College of William & Mary, tried to connect with the religious commander-in-chief, telling him, “As Martin Luther said, ‘Here I stand, I can do no other.’” They spoke at length, before Comey played the trump card, “I think you should know that Director Mueller is going to resign today.”

    Bush shifted uncomfortably; his face made clear the shock he felt. No one had told the president that his FBI director was about to walk out. He promptly excused Comey and had the Secret Service summon Mueller; Mueller didn’t budge. The NSA program was illegal; if the administration proceeded, he and the Justice Department leadership would resign. As Mueller said later in a speech, “The rule of law, civil liberties, and civil rights—these are not our burdens. They are what makes all of us safer and stronger.” If the president didn’t change course, Mueller had no choice, he said. He hadn’t sworn to serve George W. Bush. He had sworn to protect the Constitution from all enemies, foreign and domestic.

    President Bush blinked first. He told the FBI director at the end of their discussion, “Tell Jim to do what Justice thinks needs to be done.”...
    Placeholder statement by Elvis: I will accept the conclusions and findings of whatever Mueller finds in his investigation. (that includes if he finds there is no "there" there.)
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  2. #2
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    Re: Mueller. Just a reminder

    Quote Originally Posted by Elvis View Post
    This is the kind of person he is before the wolves come baying to try and tear down his credibility.





    Placeholder statement by Elvis: I will accept the conclusions and findings of whatever Mueller finds in his investigation. (that includes if he finds there is no "there" there.)
    Ditto. I do hope he has enough scope in that appointment to address al the issues we have been discussing to date and not simply Russian interference into the election without considering Trump connections...

    Regardless whatever the scope of his investigation, I am prepared to accept the results. This was an excellent choice by Rosenstein.
    TRUMP: Did you interfere?

    PUTIN: No

    Trump: Time to move forward

    TRUMP: Were you born in US?

    OBAMA: Yes

    Trump: This requires five years of suspicion

  3. #3
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    Re: Mueller. Just a reminder

    I have heard nothing but praise from Republicans -- not sure what the alarm is.

    But... I wonder about the scope, as well. For instance... in Democrats are completely full of ****, is their any recourse? If there is found to simply be a concerted effort to disrupt Trump's Presidency through BS... what then?

    Also -- will there be an independent look at HRC home network? If DNC/RNC were hacked, then surely hers was also -- will that be part of the scope?

    Very interesting times!!!

  4. #4
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    Re: Mueller. Just a reminder

    Quote Originally Posted by The Zou View Post
    I have heard nothing but praise from Republicans -- not sure what the alarm is.

    But... I wonder about the scope, as well. For instance... in Democrats are completely full of ****, is their any recourse? If there is found to simply be a concerted effort to disrupt Trump's Presidency through BS... what then?
    Democrats will pay the political price in 2018 and beyond. Look no further than Gingrich and his overreach and the price Republicans paid in the 1990's.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Zou
    Also -- will there be an independent look at HRC home network? If DNC/RNC were hacked, then surely hers was also -- will that be part of the scope?
    impossible because that is not its purpose.
    If you want HRC investigated, then go ask your representative or have Sessions do it. You do not need a special prosecutor for that.

    Current U.S. practice for appointing a special prosecutor is governed by the Code of Federal Regulations (CFR), Chapter 6. In general, it provides the AG much wider discretion in deciding whether to appoint an independent prosecutor and gives the AG much greater influence over the investigation. The main provisions of the CFR relating to the appointment of a Special Counsel that are relevant here is:

    Section 600.1 of the CFR provides that the AG will appoint a Special Counsel (SC] when the AG determines that criminal investigation is warranted and that (a)investigation by the Department of Justice would present a conflict of interest or "other extraordinary circumstance" and that "under the circumstances it would be in the public interest to appoint and outside Special Counsel." The AG's decision is unreviewable.


    So, the only reason to appoint a special prosecutor is essentially when they're investigating someone that gives rise to a conflict of interest. i.e.: the attorney general, the Deputy attorney general, president, vice president, etc.

    Otherwise, there is simply no need. The AG's office can just conduct the investigation along with the FBI. Which, btw, has already been conducted. Or has that been forgotten?
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    Re: Mueller. Just a reminder

    Quote Originally Posted by Elvis View Post
    Placeholder statement by Elvis: I will accept the conclusions and findings of whatever Mueller finds in his investigation. (that includes if he finds there is no "there" there.)
    This thing must go on for years like Benghazi. LOCK HIM UP! LOCK HIM UP! LOCK HIM UP!

  6. #6
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    Re: Mueller. Just a reminder

    Quote Originally Posted by Elvis View Post
    Democrats will pay the political price in 2018 and beyond. Look no further than Gingrich and his overreach and the price Republicans paid in the 1990's.


    impossible because that is not its purpose.
    If you want HRC investigated, then go ask your representative or have Sessions do it. You do not need a special prosecutor for that.

    Current U.S. practice for appointing a special prosecutor is governed by the Code of Federal Regulations (CFR), Chapter 6. In general, it provides the AG much wider discretion in deciding whether to appoint an independent prosecutor and gives the AG much greater influence over the investigation. The main provisions of the CFR relating to the appointment of a Special Counsel that are relevant here is:

    Section 600.1 of the CFR provides that the AG will appoint a Special Counsel (SC] when the AG determines that criminal investigation is warranted and that (a)investigation by the Department of Justice would present a conflict of interest or "other extraordinary circumstance" and that "under the circumstances it would be in the public interest to appoint and outside Special Counsel." The AG's decision is unreviewable.


    So, the only reason to appoint a special prosecutor is essentially when they're investigating someone that gives rise to a conflict of interest. i.e.: the attorney general, the Deputy attorney general, president, vice president, etc.

    Otherwise, there is simply no need. The AG's office can just conduct the investigation along with the FBI. Which, btw, has already been conducted. Or has that been forgotten?
    What if that is where evidence leads? No chance for "obstruction of justice"???

  7. #7
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    Re: Mueller. Just a reminder

    Quote Originally Posted by The Zou View Post
    What if that is where evidence leads? No chance for "obstruction of justice"???
    First, I don't see how it's possible to get to that conclusion

    Second assuming that's true the answer is no. I will refer you back again to what is the purview of the special prosecutor.


    Isn't the better question to ask why isn't the FBI continuing its investigation. Why hasn't Sessions already brought charges against HRC? It seems to me your problem is that there isn't a continuing and ongoing investigation. You have an entirely republican controlled congress, a republican POTUS, and no investigation into HRC. That's a tough one to figure out.
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  8. #8
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    Re: Mueller. Just a reminder

    Quote Originally Posted by Elvis View Post
    First, I don't see how it's possible to get to that conclusion

    Second assuming that's true the answer is no. I will refer you back again to what is the purview of the special prosecutor.


    Isn't the better question to ask why isn't the FBI continuing its investigation. Why hasn't Sessions already brought charges against HRC? It seems to me your problem is that there isn't a continuing and ongoing investigation. You have an entirely republican controlled congress, a republican POTUS, and no investigation into HRC. That's a tough one to figure out.
    I was being tongue & cheek when I said "obstruction of justice" -- isn't that what Starr eventually nailed B Clinton on?

    But serious question here:

    If he is going to investigate Russian collusion... and the same connections that manafort/Flynn have are shared by Podesta -- shouldn't the Clinton campaign be drawn into the investigation?

  9. #9
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    Re: Mueller. Just a reminder

    Quote Originally Posted by The Zou View Post
    I was being tongue & cheek when I said "obstruction of justice" -- isn't that what Starr eventually nailed B Clinton on?
    Yes, but he was the POTUS at the time. I really don't want to get sidetracked re: clinton (either one). I have never really understood the obsession about his presidency.


    Quote Originally Posted by The Zou
    If he is going to investigate Russian collusion... and the same connections that manafort/Flynn have are shared by Podesta -- shouldn't the Clinton campaign be drawn into the investigation?
    I guess you really want to go down this rabbit hole. Procedurally, if the special prosecutor discovers that the collusion occurred between HRC's campaign and Russia in act of self sabotage, then he concludes his investigation with regards to the Trump administration with no evidence of collusion and turns the evidence and information he has over to the Attorney General. The AG can, at that point, start proceedings against Podesta/HRC etc. and open a new FBI investigation.

    I will further add that Mueller is highly unlikely to conclude that there was collusion between Trump campaign and Russia if the only thing that is discovered is that they have some contacts in Russia. It would require something more.
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  10. #10
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    Re: Mueller. Just a reminder

    Quote Originally Posted by Elvis View Post
    Yes, but he was the POTUS at the time. I really don't want to get sidetracked re: clinton (either one). I have never really understood the obsession about his presidency.




    I guess you really want to go down this rabbit hole. Procedurally, if the special prosecutor discovers that the collusion occurred between HRC's campaign and Russia in act of self sabotage, then he concludes his investigation with regards to the Trump administration with no evidence of collusion and turns the evidence and information he has over to the Attorney General. The AG can, at that point, start proceedings against Podesta/HRC etc. and open a new FBI investigation.

    I will further add that Mueller is highly unlikely to conclude that there was collusion between Trump campaign and Russia if the only thing that is discovered is that they have some contacts in Russia. It would require something more.
    That is what i was asking about -- procedurally, can they get drug into the mix? It sounds like it is possible.

    I wouldn't suggest that Podesta/HRC self-sabotaged; that is just crazy. You have to remember that my stance is that Russia didn't dump emails to Wikileaks. From that stand-point, the real investigation would revolve around the connections of Flynn & Manafort -- Podesta has the same connections... and so it would stand to reason that it would be investigated.

    If they did try to influence through Trump surrogates -- who is to say that they didn't also influence through Clinton? What if... instead of influencing the election outcome, they were more interested in being at the table (despite outcome)? Sort of like a good hedging strategy...??!?

    I think that now that there is Special Council... we should cover all angles. I know the anti-trumpers were biased towards a narrow review based on their concerns... but maybe we should just open this baby all the way up?!?

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