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    Re: SEC awards

    I disagree on a lot of that, but I'm happy we won the league. Thats not subjective. Id be okay never having another POY or COY if it meant we won the league every year.

    How Cal doesn't win is beyond me. He lost 5 guys and still won the league by two games. The job he did between recruiting and in game winning is the best. It just is IMO, but I can see Mike White winning given how that award normally goes. (For Cal to beat Mike White without a second team PG in the defacto championship game is quite impressive. Cal only eins COY when we have a perfrct season and thats not fair).

    What really annoys me is how Sindarius Thornwell is POY over Malik Monk. I wont even get into that one further.

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    Re: SEC awards

    Quote Originally Posted by kentubbybasketball View Post
    I disagree on a lot of that, but I'm happy we won the league. Thats not subjective. Id be okay never having another POY or COY if it meant we won the league every year.

    How Cal doesn't win is beyond me. He lost 5 guys and still won the league by two games. The job he did between recruiting and in game winning is the best. It just is IMO, but I can see Mike White winning given how that award normally goes. (For Cal to beat Mike White without a second team PG in the defacto championship game is quite impressive. Cal only eins COY when we have a perfrct season and thats not fair).

    What really annoys me is how Sindarius Thornwell is POY over Malik Monk. I wont even get into that one further.
    Why? Monk averaged .001 more points per game than Thornwell. Thornwell averaged more rebounds, steals, assists, blocks, and shot the same from the free throw line. He also played 4 different positions and often guarded the opposing teams best player. Let's not forget that he was voted on the all defensive team as well. All this while playing 6 less games.

    I guess it must be a stigma against South Carolina teams. I mean they're South Carolina, they can't possibly have a player win SEC Player of the Year.

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    Re: SEC awards

    Quote Originally Posted by JRS View Post
    Why? Monk averaged .001 more points per game than Thornwell. Thornwell averaged more rebounds, steals, assists, blocks, and shot the same from the free throw line. He also played 4 different positions and often guarded the opposing teams best player. Let's not forget that he was voted on the all defensive team as well. All this while playing 6 less games.

    I guess it must be a stigma against South Carolina teams. I mean they're South Carolina, they can't possibly have a player win SEC Player of the Year.
    That's all fair but Monk was on a 2 loss SEC team. Go back and look at the history of the award. It usually goes to the best player on the best team. If Monk had a 4OT game maybe he wouldve scored 47 against Bama too. I dont care much about the stats. Stats can say what you want, and if USC chooses to be a one man team, why does thatbpenalize Monk in your mind? Looking at the games and results, Monk affected winning much more. A POY on a 6 loss team in a weak league when another guy is the 4th frosh to lead the SEC in scoring on a 2 loss champion seems odd to me.

    Monk was the AP POY for the SEC, so I'm happy he got that one at least.

    The idea he played 6 less games than Monk actually supports the case for Monk. Lets not act like Thornwell was injured. He got suspended for his own bad behavior/neglience.

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    Re: SEC awards

    Quote Originally Posted by kentubbybasketball View Post
    That's all fair but Monk was on a 2 loss SEC team. Go back and look at the history of the award. It usually goes to the best player on the best team. If Monk had a 4OT game maybe he wouldve scored 47 against Bama too. I dont care much about the stats. Stats can say what you want, and if USC chooses to be a one man team, why does thatbpenalize Monk in your mind? Looking at the games and results, Monk affected winning much more. A POY on a 6 loss team in a weak league when another guy is the 4th frosh to lead the SEC in scoring on a 2 loss champion seems odd to me.

    Monk was the AP POY for the SEC, so I'm happy he got that one at least.

    The idea he played 6 less games than Monk actually supports the case for Monk. Lets not act like Thornwell was injured. He got suspended for his own bad behavior/neglience.
    Thornwell was more valuable for his team than Monk was to UK and that is a fact. Without Monk UK just plugs in another 5* recruit and carries on, maybe not to the tune of 26 wins but still over 20. Without Thornwell SC does not win 22 games and would not be going to the tournament.

    Also, there is more to basketball than just scoring. I believe you brought up an argument a few years back about the difference between Downey and Wall and that there is more than just scoring. Wall filled up the stat sheet in more areas than scoring. That is the case this year with Thornwell, he did more than just score.

    Did you even watch the Bama game? If it wasn't for him there wouldn't have been a first overtime let alone 3 more.

    Be happy with the AP award, I believe I would trust what SEC coaches think over the Associated Press, these are the people who had to game plan for him after all.

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    Re: SEC awards

    Quote Originally Posted by kentubbybasketball View Post
    That's all fair but Monk was on a 2 loss SEC team. Go back and look at the history of the award. It usually goes to the best player on the best team. If Monk had a 4OT game maybe he wouldve scored 47 against Bama too. I dont care much about the stats. Stats can say what you want, and if USC chooses to be a one man team, why does thatbpenalize Monk in your mind? Looking at the games and results, Monk affected winning much more. A POY on a 6 loss team in a weak league when another guy is the 4th frosh to lead the SEC in scoring on a 2 loss champion seems odd to me.

    Monk was the AP POY for the SEC, so I'm happy he got that one at least.

    The idea he played 6 less games than Monk actually supports the case for Monk. Lets not act like Thornwell was injured. He got suspended for his own bad behavior/neglience.
    On a 2-loss team full of NBA talent. Most of our guys will end up with careers in Europe. It's harder to do what Thornwell did on a team like South Carolina compared to what Monk did on a team like Kentucky. Everything's easier when the guys around you are better. When we didn't have Thornwell it showed...

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    Re: SEC awards

    Agree about Monk, no way he isn't POY. Disagree about COY. White followed a bona fide legend, and finished second in the SEC with a team not nearly as talented as UK. White got more out of his team IMO
    "Alabama's cornerbacks don't impress me one bit. They're overrated. Real men don't play zone defense and we'll show them a thing or two come January 1."

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    Re: SEC awards

    Quote Originally Posted by Bama_Man View Post
    Agree about Monk, no way he isn't POY. Disagree about COY. White followed a bona fide legend, and finished second in the SEC with a team not nearly as talented as UK. White got more out of his team IMO
    Since when is it Cal's fault what talent Mike White has. If you grade on a curve, I guess I get it. However, these coaches all can recruit whoever they want. Recruiting is the most important part of the job. Even if we say Xs and Os wise White was better, the difference there is not enough compared to the difference on rhe recruiting side where Cal trumps White by a lot. Recruiting is part of what made Cal win the SEC. Using that as a qualifier to say he shouldn't be COY seems odd to me.

    The way Cal recruits bare mimimum makes him a candidate every year. To me the best coach in a given year is usually the one who won the championship. If we are saying it goes to who got the most out of his talent, did White get more than Bryce Drew did at Vandy given what Vandy lacks (i.e. no PG and a lack of post D) and considering he swept White?

    Furthermore what does who White following Billy D have to do with this year. Billy was under .500 his last year for all intents and purposes. Likewise, Cal followed the dumpster fire that was Billy G at UK. He deserves credit for that imo. People think what Cal does is easy and just overlook him. If it were easy everybody would be doing it. Cal had one of his best years here, and in a weak league I think he was the best coach in the totality of recruiting, coaching, and winning. The only area you could sort of argue White was better was in coaching and that's not forgone.

    And yeah White did finish second. Somebody is always going to finish second. Does that automatically shoo them in simply because Cal recruits so well? Arkansas finished second two years agi when we started 38-0. Mike Anderson wasn't coach of the year then.

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    Re: SEC awards

    Quote Originally Posted by kentubbybasketball View Post
    Since when is it Cal's fault what talent Mike White has. If you grade on a curve, I guess I get it. However, these coaches all can recruit whoever they want. Recruiting is the most important part of the job. Even if we say Xs and Os wise White was better, the difference there is not enough compared to the difference on rhe recruiting side where Cal trumps White by a lot. Recruiting is part of what made Cal win the SEC. Using that as a qualifier to say he shouldn't be COY seems odd to me.

    The way Cal recruits bare mimimum makes him a candidate every year. To me the best coach in a given year is usually the one who won the championship. If we are saying it goes to who got the most out of his talent, did White get more than Bryce Drew did at Vandy given what Vandy lacks (i.e. no PG and a lack of post D) and considering he swept White?

    Furthermore what does who White following Billy D have to do with this year. Billy was under .500 his last year for all intents and purposes. Likewise, Cal followed the dumpster fire that was Billy G at UK. He deserves credit for that imo. People think what Cal does is easy and just overlook him. If it were easy everybody would be doing it. Cal had one of his best years here, and in a weak league I think he was the best coach in the totality of recruiting, coaching, and winning. The only area you could sort of argue White was better was in coaching and that's not forgone.

    And yeah White did finish second. Somebody is always going to finish second. Does that automatically shoo them in simply because Cal recruits so well? Arkansas finished second two years agi when we started 38-0. Mike Anderson wasn't coach of the year then.
    This is quite possibly the most nonsensical post you've made. Coaches should win awards because they recruit well? White is an excellent X's and O's coach who took a team with less talent and put up a better RPI than UK, beat eight top fifty RPI teams, had zero bad losses and smacked UK down at home while losing a close game on the road.
    Recruiting itself is absolutely meaningless to a COY award, or Nick Saban would win in football every year. It's about expectations v. production, as well as COACHING, ya know the X's and O's that you basically accepted that White excelled at over Cal.
    White deserved the COY award, can't see how that's even debatable.
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    Re: SEC awards

    Quote Originally Posted by Bama_Man View Post
    This is quite possibly the most nonsensical post you've made. Coaches should win awards because they recruit well? White is an excellent X's and O's coach who took a team with less talent and put up a better RPI than UK, beat eight top fifty RPI teams, had zero bad losses and smacked UK down at home while losing a close game on the road.
    Recruiting itself is absolutely meaningless to a COY award, or Nick Saban would win in football every year. It's about expectations v. production, as well as COACHING, ya know the X's and O's that you basically accepted that White excelled at over Cal.
    White deserved the COY award, can't see how that's even debatable.
    The most important part of the job is recruiting is it not? You keep qualifying White because he had lesser talent afterall. Must be something to having more talent. But who says having more talent is easier. How did Johnny Jones and Lorenzo Romas do witj top 3 picks the lat two years. Not as easy as it looks. Given the fact Saban wins the SEC every year, he should be COy every year. Thanks for arguing my point. Phil Jackson shouldve won every year also but only won once. I dont care he had Jordan,Pippen, Kobe, and Shaq. He was the most successful coach as Cal was this season.cal was predicted to win the league and he did. The guy who's predictee to win and does should win more than he does with these things.

    Ultimately, the 2017 SEC COY is not going to make Cal's career. I said last week when we beat Florida that White would win. I mean Cal has been COY twice with 5 titles. It's obvious he wasn't going to win. Doesnt mean it was right. I think White would rather be a champion afterall. Cal is the only coach to beat every other coach this year with one of the ten youngest teams in the country. Btw, with all those accomplishments White still cant beat Vandy or win an SEC title like Cal did. Youre the only person who still touts RPI. The committe doesnt even anymore.

    And, for what its worth White's roster is riddled with top 50 and 100 guys. Mike Anderson's is not. He should be COy based off your nonsensical argument. Lets not act like he had butter knife this year while Cal had a machete. We would've taken Allen and Egbunu out of high school. White has had 3 years to develop that roster, whereas Cal won the league with a team he had for only 5 months. Stop acting like it is silly to say the champion coach should be COY.
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