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Thread: SEC awards

  1. #11
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    Re: SEC awards

    Monk doesnt have to do everything because we have other players to rebound and play the big positions. Monk wasn't asked to play 4 positions and do everything like Thornwell. That does not make him any less of the player of the year. If we told Monk to get rebound, he would, as we did against LSU when he got 7 boards. Given Monk leaks out on defense, his role was not rebound like Thornwell does. He did what he needed to do to win, which was score, not unlike Thornwell, who just happened to win less quite frankly.

    By the way, I must've missed the memo on the SEC games you coached as well. My opinion must carry some weight given you feel the need to debate it. You arguing that is like saying I can't criticize Trump because Ive never been president. That's asinine.

    Youre all over the John Wall thing, whoch honestly I don't remember, so I can't fully comment. I will say Devan Downey was on a lesser tram just like Thornwell. That does matter. If it didn't, why do we even keep records and give out championship.

    You've missed my point completely if you think I have ripped Thornwell. Im not sure where I ever said or even insinuated he's not a good college player. Please show me where I even intimated that. What I am saying is that Monk was better this year. Given his stats and team success I don't see how that's an unfounded opinion. He was a unanimous first team player. Its not a strange opinion.
    KT is so knowelegable about basketball, he can back his **** up. He can rip a program 6 ways to Sunday, yet turn around in the next breath and explain why that same program should/could/will be/is a great program.
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  2. #12
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    Re: SEC awards

    Frazier literally had to drag Georgia to three straight wins against 2 average teams and 1 bad team. Props to him, he really bounced back after having a rough few weeks and had a great season overall despite his jumper being off for a lot of it....but that really shows a lot of things...

    Thornwell deserved SEC POY, he was what made South Carolina go and they would have not been very good without him.
    Georgia sports are like Charlie Brown. They will always tease you, and then Lucy will take that football up away from Charlie and he'll flip upside down, saying "Oh brother".

  3. #13
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    Re: SEC awards

    Quote Originally Posted by kentubbybasketball View Post
    Monk doesnt have to do everything because we have other players to rebound and play the big positions. Monk wasn't asked to play 4 positions and do everything like Thornwell. That does not make him any less of the player of the year. If we told Monk to get rebound, he would, as we did against LSU when he got 7 boards. Given Monk leaks out on defense, his role was not rebound like Thornwell does. He did what he needed to do to win, which was score, not unlike Thornwell, who just happened to win less quite frankly.

    By the way, I must've missed the memo on the SEC games you coached as well. My opinion must carry some weight given you feel the need to debate it. You arguing that is like saying I can't criticize Trump because Ive never been president. That's asinine.

    Youre all over the John Wall thing, whoch honestly I don't remember, so I can't fully comment. I will say Devan Downey was on a lesser tram just like Thornwell. That does matter. If it didn't, why do we even keep records and give out championship.

    You've missed my point completely if you think I have ripped Thornwell. Im not sure where I ever said or even insinuated he's not a good college player. Please show me where I even intimated that. What I am saying is that Monk was better this year. Given his stats and team success I don't see how that's an unfounded opinion. He was a unanimous first team player. Its not a strange opinion.
    Which should show you how valuable he was to his team, more so than Monk. Monk, as you said earlier, wasn't needed to do all of the things that Thornwell was asked to do. Thornwell not only obliged but also excelled at everything he was asked to do for the team. Monk just scored and there is nothing wrong with that because that is what he was asked to do. My point is that when you have two players averaging the same points per game the next step to separate which one should be named POY should be based on the next line of statistics and who is more valuable to their team. I have always thought this way and you may disagree which is fine because it is just my opinion. There is no doubt that SC would be worse off without Thornwell than UK would be without Monk. That is a fact. That's not Monk's fault but that's just where the two teams are at this moment.

    As for coaching, I've never coached a basketball game on any level nor have I ever claimed to have. At the same time I'm not downing the people who coach for a living in this conference. My point on this is that I think I'd rather trust the opinions of basketball coaches vs the press when it comes to selecting the POY. These are the same people who had to game plan for both players night after night.

  4. #14
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    Re: SEC awards

    Quote Originally Posted by Dawg4life View Post
    Frazier literally had to drag Georgia to three straight wins against 2 average teams and 1 bad team. Props to him, he really bounced back after having a rough few weeks and had a great season overall despite his jumper being off for a lot of it....but that really shows a lot of things...

    Thornwell deserved SEC POY, he was what made South Carolina go and they would have not been very good without him.
    No offense but thank the good Lord he is graduating this year lol.

  5. #15
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    Re: SEC awards

    Quote Originally Posted by kentubbybasketball View Post
    That's all fair but Monk was on a 2 loss SEC team. Go back and look at the history of the award. It usually goes to the best player on the best team. If Monk had a 4OT game maybe he wouldve scored 47 against Bama too. I dont care much about the stats. Stats can say what you want, and if USC chooses to be a one man team, why does thatbpenalize Monk in your mind? Looking at the games and results, Monk affected winning much more. A POY on a 6 loss team in a weak league when another guy is the 4th frosh to lead the SEC in scoring on a 2 loss champion seems odd to me.

    Monk was the AP POY for the SEC, so I'm happy he got that one at least.

    The idea he played 6 less games than Monk actually supports the case for Monk. Lets not act like Thornwell was injured. He got suspended for his own bad behavior/neglience.
    On a 2-loss team full of NBA talent. Most of our guys will end up with careers in Europe. It's harder to do what Thornwell did on a team like South Carolina compared to what Monk did on a team like Kentucky. Everything's easier when the guys around you are better. When we didn't have Thornwell it showed...

  6. #16
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    Re: SEC awards

    Quote Originally Posted by kentubbybasketball View Post
    Since when is it Cal's fault what talent Mike White has. If you grade on a curve, I guess I get it. However, these coaches all can recruit whoever they want. Recruiting is the most important part of the job. Even if we say Xs and Os wise White was better, the difference there is not enough compared to the difference on rhe recruiting side where Cal trumps White by a lot. Recruiting is part of what made Cal win the SEC. Using that as a qualifier to say he shouldn't be COY seems odd to me.

    The way Cal recruits bare mimimum makes him a candidate every year. To me the best coach in a given year is usually the one who won the championship. If we are saying it goes to who got the most out of his talent, did White get more than Bryce Drew did at Vandy given what Vandy lacks (i.e. no PG and a lack of post D) and considering he swept White?

    Furthermore what does who White following Billy D have to do with this year. Billy was under .500 his last year for all intents and purposes. Likewise, Cal followed the dumpster fire that was Billy G at UK. He deserves credit for that imo. People think what Cal does is easy and just overlook him. If it were easy everybody would be doing it. Cal had one of his best years here, and in a weak league I think he was the best coach in the totality of recruiting, coaching, and winning. The only area you could sort of argue White was better was in coaching and that's not forgone.

    And yeah White did finish second. Somebody is always going to finish second. Does that automatically shoo them in simply because Cal recruits so well? Arkansas finished second two years agi when we started 38-0. Mike Anderson wasn't coach of the year then.
    This is quite possibly the most nonsensical post you've made. Coaches should win awards because they recruit well? White is an excellent X's and O's coach who took a team with less talent and put up a better RPI than UK, beat eight top fifty RPI teams, had zero bad losses and smacked UK down at home while losing a close game on the road.
    Recruiting itself is absolutely meaningless to a COY award, or Nick Saban would win in football every year. It's about expectations v. production, as well as COACHING, ya know the X's and O's that you basically accepted that White excelled at over Cal.
    White deserved the COY award, can't see how that's even debatable.
    "Alabama's cornerbacks don't impress me one bit. They're overrated. Real men don't play zone defense and we'll show them a thing or two come January 1."

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  7. #17
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    Re: SEC awards

    Quote Originally Posted by GR8NESS View Post
    Why? Monk got buckets and that's it.

    Thornwell literally did everything for that team.
    He got buckets in big games and put up some huge numbers. Thornwell did more, no debating that. Just thought Monk was the scarier player for an opposing team.
    "Alabama's cornerbacks don't impress me one bit. They're overrated. Real men don't play zone defense and we'll show them a thing or two come January 1."

    Miami WR Lamar Thomas, the weeks before the 1993 Sugar Bowl national title game.


  8. #18
    Brigadier General kentubbybasketball has a great deal of respect on the forumskentubbybasketball has a great deal of respect on the forumskentubbybasketball has a great deal of respect on the forumskentubbybasketball has a great deal of respect on the forumskentubbybasketball has a great deal of respect on the forumskentubbybasketball has a great deal of respect on the forumskentubbybasketball has a great deal of respect on the forumskentubbybasketball has a great deal of respect on the forumskentubbybasketball has a great deal of respect on the forumskentubbybasketball has a great deal of respect on the forumskentubbybasketball has a great deal of respect on the forums
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    Re: SEC awards

    Quote Originally Posted by Bama_Man View Post
    This is quite possibly the most nonsensical post you've made. Coaches should win awards because they recruit well? White is an excellent X's and O's coach who took a team with less talent and put up a better RPI than UK, beat eight top fifty RPI teams, had zero bad losses and smacked UK down at home while losing a close game on the road.
    Recruiting itself is absolutely meaningless to a COY award, or Nick Saban would win in football every year. It's about expectations v. production, as well as COACHING, ya know the X's and O's that you basically accepted that White excelled at over Cal.
    White deserved the COY award, can't see how that's even debatable.
    The most important part of the job is recruiting is it not? You keep qualifying White because he had lesser talent afterall. Must be something to having more talent. But who says having more talent is easier. How did Johnny Jones and Lorenzo Romas do witj top 3 picks the lat two years. Not as easy as it looks. Given the fact Saban wins the SEC every year, he should be COy every year. Thanks for arguing my point. Phil Jackson shouldve won every year also but only won once. I dont care he had Jordan,Pippen, Kobe, and Shaq. He was the most successful coach as Cal was this season.cal was predicted to win the league and he did. The guy who's predictee to win and does should win more than he does with these things.

    Ultimately, the 2017 SEC COY is not going to make Cal's career. I said last week when we beat Florida that White would win. I mean Cal has been COY twice with 5 titles. It's obvious he wasn't going to win. Doesnt mean it was right. I think White would rather be a champion afterall. Cal is the only coach to beat every other coach this year with one of the ten youngest teams in the country. Btw, with all those accomplishments White still cant beat Vandy or win an SEC title like Cal did. Youre the only person who still touts RPI. The committe doesnt even anymore.

    And, for what its worth White's roster is riddled with top 50 and 100 guys. Mike Anderson's is not. He should be COy based off your nonsensical argument. Lets not act like he had butter knife this year while Cal had a machete. We would've taken Allen and Egbunu out of high school. White has had 3 years to develop that roster, whereas Cal won the league with a team he had for only 5 months. Stop acting like it is silly to say the champion coach should be COY.
    KT is so knowelegable about basketball, he can back his **** up. He can rip a program 6 ways to Sunday, yet turn around in the next breath and explain why that same program should/could/will be/is a great program.
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  9. #19
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    Re: SEC awards

    Quote Originally Posted by Bama_Man View Post
    He got buckets in big games and put up some huge numbers. Thornwell did more, no debating that. Just thought Monk was the scarier player for an opposing team.
    Kentucky is a scarier team for an opposing team.

  10. #20
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    Re: SEC awards

    Quote Originally Posted by kentubbybasketball View Post
    The most important part of the job is recruiting is it not? You keep qualifying White because he had lesser talent afterall. Must be something to having more talent. But who says having more talent is easier. How did Johnny Jones and Lorenzo Romas do witj top 3 picks the lat two years. Not as easy as it looks. Given the fact Saban wins the SEC every year, he should be COy every year. Thanks for arguing my point. Phil Jackson shouldve won every year also but only won once. I dont care he had Jordan,Pippen, Kobe, and Shaq. He was the most successful coach as Cal was this season.cal was predicted to win the league and he did. The guy who's predictee to win and does should win more than he does with these things.

    Ultimately, the 2017 SEC COY is not going to make Cal's career. I said last week when we beat Florida that White would win. I mean Cal has been COY twice with 5 titles. It's obvious he wasn't going to win. Doesnt mean it was right. I think White would rather be a champion afterall. Cal is the only coach to beat every other coach this year with one of the ten youngest teams in the country. Btw, with all those accomplishments White still cant beat Vandy or win an SEC title like Cal did. Youre the only person who still touts RPI. The committe doesnt even anymore.

    And, for what its worth White's roster is riddled with top 50 and 100 guys. Mike Anderson's is not. He should be COy based off your nonsensical argument. Lets not act like he had butter knife this year while Cal had a machete. We would've taken Allen and Egbunu out of high school. White has had 3 years to develop that roster, whereas Cal won the league with a team he had for only 5 months. Stop acting like it is silly to say the champion coach should be COY.
    Blah blah blah, recruiting is separate than coaching. If you can't accept that, I'm not gonna waste my time proving tomyou that White was more deserving.
    "Alabama's cornerbacks don't impress me one bit. They're overrated. Real men don't play zone defense and we'll show them a thing or two come January 1."

    Miami WR Lamar Thomas, the weeks before the 1993 Sugar Bowl national title game.


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