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Thread: NBA Playoffs 2015 Thread

  1. #261
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    Re: NBA Playoffs 2015 Thread

    There are a large group of players we can put into the "great" category. To simply narrow that top a top 5 is a disservice and impossible to do for many factors.


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    Re: NBA Playoffs 2015 Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Dawgilicious View Post
    There are a large group of players we can put into the "great" category. To simply narrow that top a top 5 is a disservice and impossible to do for many factors.
    I've contended from the get-go that LeBron was one of the greatest of all-time. That gets lost in the shuffle, because I don't think he's top 5. The thing is when you suggest somebody doesn't deserve to be included, people want to know who you are including. Hence, this mess. I've said my piece, I'm leaving it alone from here. Nobody here likes LeBron James more than me. Nobody has a reason to like him more than me; afterall, he's a UK fan just as I am. It's cool to see him help our basketball program, just like Dirk and others. I'm just trying to be objective about it, and I've studied up on NBA players over the years, and they always talk about championships mattering and how many. Who am I as a fan to suggest any different then.

    When you start comparing 6 titles to only 2 that does matter. It's so annoying when people then just go extreme and say, "well Robert Horry won 7 titles is he better than Tim Duncan?" That doesn't even deserve a response, because it's clear nobody is arguing that. However, when you start talking about the top players of all-time, they all have stats (some more than others) but who has the championships. That's how the pros themselves view it.
    KT is so knowelegable about basketball, he can back his **** up. He can rip a program 6 ways to Sunday, yet turn around in the next breath and explain why that same program should/could/will be/is a great program.
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  3. #263
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    Re: NBA Playoffs 2015 Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by kentubbybasketball View Post
    I've contended from the get-go that LeBron was one of the greatest of all-time. That gets lost in the shuffle, because I don't think he's top 5. The thing is when you suggest somebody doesn't deserve to be included, people want to know who you are including. Hence, this mess. I've said my piece, I'm leaving it alone from here. Nobody here likes LeBron James more than me. Nobody has a reason to like him more than me; afterall, he's a UK fan just as I am. It's cool to see him help our basketball program, just like Dirk and others. I'm just trying to be objective about it, and I've studied up on NBA players over the years, and they always talk about championships mattering and how many. Who am I as a fan to suggest any different then.

    When you start comparing 6 titles to only 2 that does matter. It's so annoying when people then just go extreme and say, "well Robert Horry won 7 titles is he better than Tim Duncan?" That doesn't even deserve a response, because it's clear nobody is arguing that. However, when you start talking about the top players of all-time, they all have stats (some more than others) but who has the championships. That's how the pros themselves view it.

    touche sir! Its almost a no-win situation


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  4. #264
    Administrator Dawg in Dallas has a great deal of respect on the forumsDawg in Dallas has a great deal of respect on the forumsDawg in Dallas has a great deal of respect on the forumsDawg in Dallas has a great deal of respect on the forumsDawg in Dallas has a great deal of respect on the forumsDawg in Dallas has a great deal of respect on the forumsDawg in Dallas has a great deal of respect on the forumsDawg in Dallas has a great deal of respect on the forumsDawg in Dallas has a great deal of respect on the forumsDawg in Dallas has a great deal of respect on the forumsDawg in Dallas has a great deal of respect on the forums Dawg in Dallas's Avatar
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    Re: NBA Playoffs 2015 Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Bama_Man View Post
    So Jerry West is inferior to Joe Dumars? Dumars won one more title than West.

    My point has simply been that using championships is not the end all be all when comparing two players.

    John Stockton never won a title, but he was a better PG than Derek Fischer or Tony Parker.

    Duncan has to be in anyone's top five really, five titles, two MVPs, three Finals MVPs, made an All-NBA and All-Defensive Team in each of his first thirteen seasons. No other player can claim that. 15x All-Star, 10x first team All-NBA, 8x All-Defensive first team, the quadruple-double he had in the Finals (yes the official record was that he was two blocks short, but if you watch the game, Duncan blocked two shots that were not officially registered so in anyone's mind who watched that game against New Jersey knows TD had 20+ points, 10 boards/assists/blocks in a close out NBA Finals game), etc... Sports Illustrated named DUNCAN the Top NBA Player of the Decade (2000-2010) over Kobe and Shaq both. Slam magazine had him 8th all-time in 2009 before he played for two more titles and won one.
    Which is the right call. He is quietly awesome, not flashy, and plays in a "small" market. My only beef with him is that he whines to the refs too much and is caught on camera doing it (which is key since they all whine).

  5. #265
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    Re: NBA Playoffs 2015 Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by kentubbybasketball View Post
    I've contended from the get-go that LeBron was one of the greatest of all-time. That gets lost in the shuffle, because I don't think he's top 5. The thing is when you suggest somebody doesn't deserve to be included, people want to know who you are including. Hence, this mess. I've said my piece, I'm leaving it alone from here. Nobody here likes LeBron James more than me. Nobody has a reason to like him more than me; afterall, he's a UK fan just as I am. It's cool to see him help our basketball program, just like Dirk and others. I'm just trying to be objective about it, and I've studied up on NBA players over the years, and they always talk about championships mattering and how many. Who am I as a fan to suggest any different then.

    When you start comparing 6 titles to only 2 that does matter. It's so annoying when people then just go extreme and say, "well Robert Horry won 7 titles is he better than Tim Duncan?" That doesn't even deserve a response, because it's clear nobody is arguing that. However, when you start talking about the top players of all-time, they all have stats (some more than others) but who has the championships. That's how the pros themselves view it.
    Of course they matter, but OTHER metrics matter as well. Otherwise, Bill Russell is the greatest player ever and will never be topped. My problem with you is you ignore the other metrics in your desire to place Kobe as 1a to Jordan's 1. You had to insert Kobe into this thread, just couldn't help yourself.

  6. #266
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    Re: NBA Playoffs 2015 Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Dawg in Dallas View Post
    Of course they matter, but OTHER metrics matter as well. Otherwise, Bill Russell is the greatest player ever and will never be topped. My problem with you is you ignore the other metrics in your desire to place Kobe as 1a to Jordan's 1. You had to insert Kobe into this thread, just couldn't help yourself.
    Man, chill. If I were ignoring other metrics, I'd be out here saying Robert Horry is better than Hakeem Olajuwon. If all I was focused on was championships, I'd suggest something foolish like that, since Horry carried Olajuwon to those two titles he got, right? That's foolish, and you and I both know it. Clearly stats matter. What percentage stats matter, what percentage titles matter? That's left up to each individual. I'm not trying to tell you how you should divvy up those percentages. But, when a guy has unbelievable stats (including being the third best scorer ever in this league) on top of a handful of championships, it's clear that he has a great mix of stats and titles. maybe you're the one that ignoring metrics.

    I mentioned Kobe, because we were talking about the greatest of all-time within this thread. Newsflash, I think he's one of the greatest of all-time, so I included him. Just like I included Magic and Bird in this thread, because I think they belong in that discussion, too. If I think he's (Kobe, Magic, Bird, MJ, or anybody else for that matter) among the greatest of all-time, shoot me. I don't care if you like it or not. It's not something that's far-fetched to suggest that Kobe is one of the best that's ever played this game. It's funny, because you are acting like I'm not being objective. For you to be implying that Kobe isn't in the discussion for one of the best ever (whether that's top 2, top 5, top 10, top 25, top 50), YOU ARE THE ONE THAT'S OUT IN LEFT FIELD. I'm done taking disrespect from you, because you don't agree with MY (notice that, MY) opinion about Kobe.
    KT is so knowelegable about basketball, he can back his **** up. He can rip a program 6 ways to Sunday, yet turn around in the next breath and explain why that same program should/could/will be/is a great program.
    -Storm

    I like and respect kentubby, he does know his stuff when it concerns college basketball.
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    This board would be boring if it wasn't for Kentubby's posts and the responses he gets.
    -fatboydog

    Kentubby is one of my favorite posters on this board. Sure he has some personal views, but this board would be so if everyone agreed all the time that it wouldn't be worth going to. I'd challenge you to find another poster on this board that knows as much about EVERY SEC team as he does. He knows more about lowly South Carolina and our recruiting then alot of our own fans do. It would be a sad day for the basketball forum if he ever left.
    -SCfan804

  7. #267
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    Re: NBA Playoffs 2015 Thread

    What percentage stats matter, what percentage titles matter? That's left up to each individual. I'm not trying to tell you how you should divvy up those percentages. But, when a guy has unbelievable stats (including being the third best scorer ever in this league)
    No, he has scored the third most points. That is due to his longevity rather than his prowess as a scorer, though clearly he is an excellent scorer. I would say a points per game is a better metric, assuming a threshold minimum number of games played. Using that more accurate metric, Kobe is 10th , Jordan is first and LeBron is 4th.

    it's clear that he has a great mix of stats and titles.
    Yes he does. His stats other than championships and total numbers are not as good as LeBron's. I posted playoff averages a few pages back, along with advanced metrics in the playoffs, and you ignored them.

    It's not something that's far-fetched to suggest that Kobe is one of the best that's ever played this game.
    Sure, he just isn't 1a to Jordan and he isn't as good as LeBron either - using nearly every single metric other than total points scored, total games played or championships won. If you use ppg, TOTAL number of assists, assists/game, rebounds/game, steals/game, blocks/game, MVP awards and a slew of advanced metrics then Kobe isn't better.

    I'm done taking disrespect from you, because you don't agree with MY (notice that, MY) opinion about Kobe.
    I am sorry you feel that way. I see people laughing at me for pointing out that Kobe was Shaq's sidekick, despite the truth of that statement and I can handle it. I am sorry you can't handle being aggressively challenged.

  8. #268
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    Re: NBA Playoffs 2015 Thread

    Cool. You're entitled to your opinion, as much as anyone else. I really couldn't take much stock into what else you said after you began arguing semantics about total points. Kobe is the third best scorer as clearly as Malone is second. Of course longevity goes into it. That's not Kobe's fault.

    Believe what you want to believe about Kobe. I'll do the same, which is Kobe is the closest thing to Jordan we've had as I said days ago. I'm not even sure where 1a thing came from, because I've never stated Kobe is the second best player ever. Altho now that you bring it up, perhaps I can see its legitimacy.
    KT is so knowelegable about basketball, he can back his **** up. He can rip a program 6 ways to Sunday, yet turn around in the next breath and explain why that same program should/could/will be/is a great program.
    -Storm

    I like and respect kentubby, he does know his stuff when it concerns college basketball.
    msudawgs1964

    This board would be boring if it wasn't for Kentubby's posts and the responses he gets.
    -fatboydog

    Kentubby is one of my favorite posters on this board. Sure he has some personal views, but this board would be so if everyone agreed all the time that it wouldn't be worth going to. I'd challenge you to find another poster on this board that knows as much about EVERY SEC team as he does. He knows more about lowly South Carolina and our recruiting then alot of our own fans do. It would be a sad day for the basketball forum if he ever left.
    -SCfan804

  9. #269
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    Re: NBA Playoffs 2015 Thread

    Kobe may be the second best shooting guard ever, but I believe most people would take Duncan's career over Kobe's.

    Same number of titles, more Finals MVP awards, more MVPs, and all the accolades I posted earlier, I'd take Duncan.
    "Alabama's cornerbacks don't impress me one bit. They're overrated. Real men don't play zone defense and we'll show them a thing or two come January 1."

    Miami WR Lamar Thomas, the weeks before the 1993 Sugar Bowl national title game.


  10. #270
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    Re: NBA Playoffs 2015 Thread

    Edit: Nevermind, not taking the bait to tear down somebody to build someone else up anymore.

    I'd take either player, as would everybody else in this thread.

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