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kentubbybasketball
11-28-2011, 05:31 PM
Should he be fired for how insensitive and presumptuous his comments were in regards to the allegations against Bernie Fine?

SkyAntoine
11-28-2011, 05:51 PM
He's never been one to bite his tongue, but he definitely laid it all out there with defending his coach/friend. I would say no, unless it can be determined in the investigation that Boeheim turned a blind eye or knew something was fishy with Fine. That's the difference here between him and JoePa.

You can't blame Boeheim for defending Fine, but to flat out call the accuserliarsrs and state it was all about money appears to have been a major, major faux pas. He better be praying there's not one shred of testimony that indicates he knew about this. If so, then current public opinion in light of PSU will cause Syracuse U. to push him out the door.

I hope he knew nothing...

kentubbybasketball
11-28-2011, 06:06 PM
I live Jimmy B, but there's a difference in saying, "I stand by Bernie becuase you're innocent until proven guilty in this country." However, he attacked the alleged victims here. He attacked their character, and that's just wrong. If it were me, I'd be deeply hurt by Boeheim's comments, and honestly I'd be calling for some kind of action against Boeheim. Whether he knew nothing or not, he needs to have some form of punishment.

I'd assume he didn't know anything if he defended Fine so strongly. Why else would he do such a thing?

dawgstud
11-28-2011, 06:13 PM
I would say no on firing him.

Storm
11-28-2011, 06:16 PM
and as soon as new evidence came out, he backtracked his statements. This isn't a PSU situation where there has been a decade long coverup. He truly seemed to have no idea that Fine had done this. If anything, he stood by his friend at a time when he thought he was in need.


Firing Boeheim would be ridiculous........Unless it comes out he new about it.

GR8NESS
11-28-2011, 06:21 PM
and as soon as new evidence came out, he backtracked his statements. This isn't a PSU situation where there has been a decade long coverup. He truly seemed to have no idea that Fine had done this. If anything, he stood by his friend at a time when he thought he was in need.


Firing Boeheim would be ridiculous........Unless it comes out he new about it.

Pretty much nails what I think most people feel. Myself included.

OffThePorch
11-28-2011, 06:22 PM
Butt raped.. even if he doesnt like it...

GR8NESS
11-28-2011, 06:26 PM
Butt raped.. even if he doesnt like it...

I generally feel most that are raped don't like it. :think:

georgiaguy31015
11-28-2011, 09:06 PM
I asked myself this same question when this broke last night and no he shouldn't be fired for being loyal. We ask and want people to be loyal and that's what he was doing. Granted he said too much but he shouldn't be fired for talking too much. I think he should apologize which he did donate to charities for abused children and some speaking engagements should do the trick but that's just my opinion. Now if it comes out he knew something or even suspected something and did nothing then all bets are off and he should be fired immediately.

kentubbybasketball
11-28-2011, 09:25 PM
and as soon as new evidence came out, he backtracked his statements. This isn't a PSU situation where there has been a decade long coverup. He truly seemed to have no idea that Fine had done this. If anything, he stood by his friend at a time when he thought he was in need.


Firing Boeheim would be ridiculous........Unless it comes out he new about it.

Storm, is there not a way to support your friend without saying damaing things about others? The answer to that is a simple "yes." This isn't about loyaty. Everybody appreciates loyalty. This is about putting his foot in his mouth when he didn't have to. He couldve said, "I'll support Bernie until other info comes out," is which is in effect what he said. If he wouldve left it there, there would have been no issues. To accuse these victims of wanting money is to discoruage the victimized from coming forward, because let's face it B has some serious clout.

XPS
11-29-2011, 02:32 AM
Syracuse fired Bernie Fine today, and that's the first step. What's the next step?

Firing Jim Boeheim tomorrow.

I'm dead serious.

Lots of you don't agree with that, and don't even understand it, so I'm going to lay it out for you. By the time I'm finished here, if you still don't get it, congratulations. You care more about a famous coach than you do about innocent kids. And if that's how you want to roll, fine. But own it. Because after I'm done, after you read what I write, this will be the question you'll have to answer:

What matters more to me, a famous coach whose name I know? Or a bunch of kids, whose names I don't?

Up to you, but buckle up. Because here I go.

Jim Boeheim has to be fired -- but not because of anything Bernie Fine is alleged to have done. This isn't Joe Paterno 2.0, with the head coach being told about the alleged child molester in his midst but doing nothing about it. This isn't that. As far as we know, and I'm at peace believing this, Jim Boeheim had no idea that his longtime assistant, his close friend, his neighbor, was allegedly molesting boys. I'd never advocate firing someone for something they didn't know, and Boeheim didn't know about Bernie Fine's alleged behavior.
More on Syracuse investigation

Syracuse fires Fine
Audio, third accuser surface in case
Earlier Boeheim support

Where Boeheim screwed up -- and screwed up in a way that cannot be tolerated by Syracuse University -- is with the comments he offered, voluntarily, shortly after ESPN first reported the allegations against Fine.

Understand, the issue is not that Boeheim said on Nov. 17: "I have known Bernie Fine for more than 40 years. I have never seen or witnessed anything to suggest that he would been involved in any of the activities alleged."

That's wonderful. That's loyalty. That's allowed. Good for you, Jim Boeheim. That's being a good friend.

Nor is the issue that Boeheim also said on Nov. 17, "This matter was fully investigated by the University in 2005 and it was determined that the allegations were unfounded. ... Had I seen or suspected anything, I would have taken action."

Also, no problem. Tell us what happened in the investigation. Tell us how nothing came of it in 2005. Point taken.

Nor is the issue that Boeheim also said on Nov. 17, "Bernie has my full support."

Fine. Terrific. Support your friend. Well done.

Where Boeheim went wrong -- and by "wrong" I mean, "Where Boeheim should be fired" -- is what he told reporters the next day, including this comment to the Post-Standard of Syracuse : "The Penn State thing came out, and the kid behind this is trying to get money."

That's enough right there. Had Boeheim ended the interview at that moment, I'd beg for his firing today -- especially now that the school itself has decided there's an awful lot of smoke around Bernie Fine, so much so that the school thinks maybe, just maybe, there's some fire there as well. Otherwise, why was Bernie Fine fired on Sunday, before he's even been charged by police? Perhaps because the earlier developments Sunday, including a taped phone call involving his own wife, are so damning?

But anyway, that comment alone is enough to get Boeheim fired. But then he went farther. He also said, on Nov. 18 to the The Post-Standard of Syracuse: "If [the alleged victim] gets this, he's going to sue the university and Bernie. What do you think is going to happen at Penn State? You know how much money is going to be involved in civil suits? I'd say about $50 million. That's what this is about. Money."

Boeheim also called the first two alleged victims "liars."

By Sunday night, it finally dawned on Boeheim that he had gone too far back on Nov. 18. After Fine was fired, Boeheim stuck his finger into the air and gauged public opinion and realized, oops, he'd messed up back on Nov. 18. So he released a statement where he admitted as much:

"What is most important is that this matter be fully investigated and that anyone with information be supported to come forward so that the truth can be found," Boeheim said. "I deeply regret any statements I made that might have inhibited that from occurring or been insensitive to victims of abuse."

Better late than never -- but it's too late.

Fire him, Syracuse. Fire him now, and don't try to act like Jim Boeheim is too big to be fired. Penn State fired Joe Paterno, and he's a hell of a lot bigger in his community, and in his sport, than Boeheim is in his. It's not close, but Paterno was fired with a phone call, dismissed in a disrespectful way commensurate of the way Paterno carelessly handled the Jerry Sandusky allegations back in 2002.

Now it's Boeheim's turn to go, and it's probably not clear to some of you, even now -- even after reading Boeheim's apology -- why I'm so steadfast on this point. So let me explain it once and for all, but beware: After I explain something to you that you clearly have not considered for yourself, you're going to feel about Boeheim similarly to how I feel about him. And I feel he should be fired. If that's not what you want to feel, go read something else. Find a comic book. Maybe some old Calvin and Hobbes cartoons. The world's a happy place, right?

Well, it's not happy for the alleged victims of Bernie Fine -- and what Boeheim did on Nov. 18 was make it even harder for them to come forward.

"I deeply regret any statements I made that might have inhibited that from occurring or been insensitive to victims of abuse."

Too late. He should have thought about it on Nov. 18. Boeheim is the most powerful, most popular man in Syracuse. And for that guy, in that town, to ridicule Fine's accusers as liars and opportunists -- as deceitful frauds looking to make a quick buck -- Boeheim laid down a very public gauntlet to anyone else who might have been interested in telling the police they were molested by Fine:

Come after Fine, and you're crossing me.

That's what Boeheim was saying on Nov. 18. Whether it was intentional, whether he even knew what he was doing, isn't the point. The point is, that's what he did on Nov. 18. And that's not the kind of mistake that Syracuse University can look back on and say, "Oh well. Nobody's perfect."

I mean, sure, Syracuse can look back and say "nobody's perfect." But Syracuse also should look back and say, "Verbal intimidation of potential victims of sex abuse is not tolerated in the real world, and it will not be tolerated by this university. Accidental, intentional, no matter. Jim Boeheim said what he felt was right on Nov. 18. So now allow Syracuse University to say what we feel is right on Nov. 28:

"Jim Boeheim has been fired. Effective immediately."

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/story/16264070/boeheims-statements-go-too-far-and-it-should-cost-him-his-job

kentubbybasketball
11-29-2011, 06:18 AM
By coming out so strong with his words against the alleged victims, Boeheim was essentially tying his fate to that of Bernie Fine.

Urb Gruber
11-29-2011, 09:24 PM
Should Jim Boeheim be fired?

In a word, yes.

weegeman
11-29-2011, 10:23 PM
This is kind of a dumb and irrelevant comment, but I'm posting it anyway. I was watching the movie Blue Chips the other day. Back when it came out I was in high school and I had so much respect and admiration for all the coaches in the movie... Boeheim, Pitino, Knight, etc. and now I have no respect for any of those three. Why do some coaches become turds over time (these three, Roy, Coach K, etc.)

Very few coaches seem to have integrity these days other than The Most Interesting Coach in the World pictured below.

GatorMan32
11-29-2011, 10:34 PM
i feel like he should be fired for attacking the victims. yes.

kentubbybasketball
11-30-2011, 06:40 AM
There you go GM and Urb and weege. I've lost the high respect I had for him just 3 weeks ago. Why hed attack these guys like a bully is beyond me. It was in a word "dumb." He could've stood by Fine without attacking those guys. Then to say people should come forward if they've been molested does henot realize how hard his stupid comments made that? If it were my son I'd be offended, and I know Storm would be too, which is why I'm surprised by your reaction Storm. I really am.

But Boeheim gets so defensive and basically says he won't say anything now. If he wouldn't have opened his mouth he wouldve looked like a victim too. But by saying what he said he tied his fate to Bernie Fine's imo, and if Fine was fired, the writing should be on the wall. Not because Fine possibly did this. I don't think Boeheim had any control over that. He should be fired for what he hastily said. Syracuse should take a stand by saying they can't tolerate that.

georgiaguy31015
11-30-2011, 07:15 AM
I saw his comments last night after the Syracuse game and he's not getting it. He's too defensive for no reason. Nobody is blaming him except for the comments he's made. If I were one of the higher ups in the Administration he and I would sit down and have a little chat.

Storm
11-30-2011, 10:00 AM
If my best friend of 30+ years was being accused of something like this and I had absolutely no idea it was happening, I would have responded in the same way. I would have sided with my friend.

OffThePorch
11-30-2011, 10:06 AM
If my best friend of 30+ years was being accused of something like this and I had absolutely no idea it was happening, I would have responded in the same way. I would have sided with my friend.

You could side with your friend without putting down the accusers. Jim had no idea what his friend did when he wasnt at work.

Storm
11-30-2011, 10:39 AM
I was speaking to just him standing by his friends side. I should have specified. He should not have said that. But I also don't think it's a fireable offense, either.

GatorMan32
11-30-2011, 11:38 AM
It difficult for people who are victims of child molestation to come forward as is. They have to defend them selves for it and deal w the attention it puts on them for something horrible that happened to them. Boeheims reaction is exactly the kind of thing that silences too many real victims. As the face of Syracuse he has an obligation to represent Syracuse in a way that is much more professional than that. All around it makes the whole situation more visible on Cuse and put the victims through more hell. In short absolutely an offense deserving of firing.

joehogjoe
11-30-2011, 11:47 AM
There is no reason he should be fired.

kentubbybasketball
11-30-2011, 05:20 PM
I saw his comments last night after the Syracuse game and he's not getting it. He's too defensive for no reason. Nobody is blaming him except for the comments he's made. If I were one of the higher ups in the Administration he and I would sit down and have a little chat.

Bingo! Your first sentence especially says it all. Not that you need my rep, but I'm sending it anyway. You are spot on. I honestly feel like Boeheim didn't know what was going on. I think he's innocent in all of this. But, to come out and attack (alleged) victims like this makes him look like a bully.

kentubbybasketball
11-30-2011, 05:23 PM
If my best friend of 30+ years was being accused of something like this and I had absolutely no idea it was happening, I would have responded in the same way. I would have sided with my friend.

Storm, you are still talking apples with oranges. Nobody is chiding him for being loyal to his friend. But, loyalties to your friends is one thing and attacking the defenseless is another. I would've supported my friend too. But, OTP says it right you can defend a friend and not slam the accused at the same time.

kentubbybasketball
11-30-2011, 05:26 PM
It difficult for people who are victims of child molestation to come forward as is. They have to defend them selves for it and deal w the attention it puts on them for something horrible that happened to them. Boeheims reaction is exactly the kind of thing that silences too many real victims. As the face of Syracuse he has an obligation to represent Syracuse in a way that is much more professional than that. All around it makes the whole situation more visible on Cuse and put the victims through more hell. In short absolutely an offense deserving of firing.

Rarely ever do I really disagree with you, and this is the same case. Your opinion is right on. Most people are cautious anytime something like this is even alleged. To come to your friend's aid in a way that paints someone as an extortionist or a liar is just wrong. If I were a parent, I wouldn't want my kid playing for Boeheim if that's how he reacts to things. This makes him come across as a person that jumps to conclusion.

Now he's out saying the process needs to play out. Why didn't it need to play out on November 18 when he labeled Bobby Davis as a liar ("thousand of lies" he said) and an extortionist?

Storm
11-30-2011, 06:45 PM
Storm, you are still talking apples with oranges. Nobody is chiding him for being loyal to his friend. But, loyalties to your friends is one thing and attacking the defenseless is another. I would've supported my friend too. But, OTP says it right you can defend a friend and not slam the accused at the same time.

He obviously felt so strong that the accusations were false, that he didn't think about what he was saying. Everyone makes mistakes. In the grand scheme of things, I don't see it as being the end of the world.

kentubbybasketball
11-30-2011, 06:52 PM
I feel like the sky is green, doesn't mean it is. Just because he felt that way doesn't justify him saying it, clearly since it seems like he was duped more than anybody.

Storm
11-30-2011, 09:18 PM
Which is why it was a dumb mistake. He shouldn't be persecuted for making a mistake. It's not a decade worth of cover up like Paterno.

kentubbybasketball
11-30-2011, 10:19 PM
What's your definition of mistake. Couldn't Fine just say he "made a mistake," too and just skate off free too?

Boeheim made no mistake. He knew he was defending a man out of loyalty that was alleged to have molested boys. Point blank period. He didn't accidentally mistake into attacking those guys. I expect more out of someone that's near 70.

joehogjoe
12-01-2011, 10:53 AM
remember when there was a presumption of innocence until proven guilty.

Storm
12-01-2011, 11:04 AM
Exactly, Joe. And let's not forget that our society has turned into a "sue first, ask questions later" society. With the timing of the allegations so closely after the Sandusky stuff, I myself questioned the truthfulness of it at the very beginning.

kentubbybasketball
12-01-2011, 06:04 PM
remember when there was a presumption of innocence until proven guilty.

Remember when the university fired Bernie Fine. He must be radioactive. There must be something to this. The chancellor said the audio tapes were his "nail in the coffin."

Storm, that's really silly for you to say. The timing of the Sandusky stuff being so close makes the Fine stuff seem "manufactured." Did it ever dawn on you that maybe seeing the people come forward in the Sandusky case served as the confidence boost, these guys needed to out Bernie Fine? You say Joe is exactly right about his "innocent till proven guilty" then, yet you don't give these accusers the same "innocent until proven guilty" leeway, as you judged them at the beginning. That's hypocrisy.

Storm
12-01-2011, 08:49 PM
yeah it dawned on me. I even stated that in the Sandusky thread that "the only positive from this is maybe it will give more victims the strength to come forward." That doesn't change my opinion though that there are a lot of people in this world that are looking for nothing but a handout and will take advantage of situations if it serves them.

kentubbybasketball
12-01-2011, 09:45 PM
It's innocent till proven guilty, right? RIGHT

georgiaguy31015
12-01-2011, 11:12 PM
Exactly, Joe. And let's not forget that our society has turned into a "sue first, ask questions later" society. With the timing of the allegations so closely after the Sandusky stuff, I myself questioned the truthfulness of it at the very beginning.

I did the same thing but after listening to the tape of his wife I'd say he's as guilty as sin. That may not be fair of me or whatever you want to call it but that's how I feel right now.

Storm
12-02-2011, 09:08 AM
I did the same thing but after listening to the tape of his wife I'd say he's as guilty as sin. That may not be fair of me or whatever you want to call it but that's how I feel right now.

oh without a doubt. I'm sure if that tape would have came out at the same time as the initial accusations, no way Boeheim makes the statement he did. Like I said, he made a mistake, all he can do is move forward.

joehogjoe
12-02-2011, 10:03 AM
It's innocent till proven guilty, right? RIGHT

it should be, but I'm talking about Jimmy B., he's the topic of this thread. He's innocent until proven guilty. I've yet to hear anything he did wrong other than stand by a friend who he believed innocent.

kentubbybasketball
12-02-2011, 05:13 PM
What he did wrong was label people as liars and extortioners. You may not find that wrong, B found it wrong enough to basically issue an apology.

joehogjoe
12-02-2011, 06:41 PM
he may not be wrong. the one "victim" who said it went on until he was 27 is a hardly credible. If it did indeed go on after he turned 18 then he liked it and it became a relationship. He's po'd that it ended.

kentubbybasketball
12-02-2011, 08:02 PM
I don't care to get into what you think happened. Innocent till proven guilty as SOMEONE said earlier.

joehogjoe
12-02-2011, 08:05 PM
I don't care to get into what you think happened. Innocent till proven guilty as SOMEONE said earlier.
because you know I'm right on this one. Jimmy B is entitled to his opinion just as anyone.

kentubbybasketball
12-02-2011, 10:03 PM
Joe, you continue to look foolish considering B's postgame comments tonight. Whether you get it or not, I'm glad Boeheim finally apologized with contrition and just because he had to. He seemed so defensive for the first time he admitted he made a mistake. Joe, you can continue to argue that if you want. You're on your own, because even B isn't on that side anymore. My work here is done.