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kentubbybasketball
03-03-2009, 02:20 PM
UK great Mike Casey on Billy Gillispie:

“First of all, I think he’s in over his head. I think he has no clue as to what’s going on in the game.”

“I just don’t think he knows what it means to coach at UK. I hate to say it, but a change has to be made, and soon, or we’re going to lose what UK is all about. Ask (Richie) Farmer, or (John) Pelphrey, or (Deron) Feldhaus what it means to play at Kentucky. Ask them what that “Kentucky” across their chests means. Somehow we’ve let that go. If we lost we came out fightin’ mad; we weren’t going to lose two in a row. It’s beyond me why (Mitch) Barnhart and (Lee) Todd put up with it.”

kentubbybasketball
03-03-2009, 02:23 PM
Here's my question, should former players (especially great ones) be going out saying things like this. It's the age old, do you air out your dirty laundry in public thing.

msudawg4life
03-03-2009, 02:44 PM
good for him

bballpro408
03-03-2009, 03:04 PM
I remember when the hire was made and how excited all the UK fans were, but now their singing a different tune. As an honest question, what went wrong? I haven't watched enough UK games to know. Obviously you're losing more than you're used to, but is that it?

Dollar Theater
03-03-2009, 03:09 PM
I've been saying that all along.

WVUfaninKY3
03-03-2009, 03:11 PM
That's the thing, we aren't losing more than we are used to. They are mad because we are losing the same amount in Gillispie's first 2 years as Tubby's last 2 years. Funny thing is, he's winning the same amount of games with the equal or less talent than Tubby.

kentubbybasketball
03-03-2009, 03:19 PM
bballpro, the main thing is Gillispie seems to refuse to make in game adjustments. At some point, people will just start assuming you can't make in game adjustments if you won't. Otherwise, if you're down 20 points, why wouldn't you try something new.

Also, people are frustrated, because we have Meeks/Patterson (aka UK's best duo since maybe Joe B. Hall's era in the early 1980s), combine that with a weaker than usual SEC and that's why people are mad.

This UK team is the first to ever start 5-0 in the SEC that didn't go on to win the SEC.

But, WVUfan, to suggest "we're winning the same amount of games" is just unfactual. Gillispie won 18 games last year, breaking UK's streak of 20 win seasons that dated back to 1991, which actually covered Tubby's entire tenure, including the last two years. You're just wrong about that.

MSUado
03-03-2009, 03:20 PM
If Patterson and Meeks do indeed leave you will see the worst Kentucky team in 20 years. G needs to find a way to at least keep one of those guys around.

kentubbybasketball
03-03-2009, 03:24 PM
If Patterson and Meeks do indeed leave you will see the worst Kentucky team in 20 years. G needs to find a way to at least keep one of those guys around.

Whether that's true is purely debateable, but the fact that you could even begin to argue that is a telling sign, because by that point, Gillispie will have had 2 recruiting classes of his own, not including the 2007, which was partially his.

From a talent perspective, it's amazing how people say he has to wait to get his players. First off, Trent Johnson and Darrin Horn didn't wait till they got their own players to do big things. Last year, Gillispie went 12-4 without his own players. Furthermore, if you can't win with this roster, are you really a good coach. If you can only win with good talent, doesn't that make you a good recruiter (say John Brady or Mark Gottfried).

SkyAntoine
03-03-2009, 03:25 PM
Here's my question, should former players (especially great ones) be going out saying things like this. It's the age old, do you air out your dirty laundry in public thing.
I personally take these comments with a grain of salt. Yes, he is a UK great that understands Kentucky basketball, but unless he's in the know and in the locker room with the players, then it's his opinion just like we have ours.

I love my namesake, Kenny Walker, but I also know he was against Tubby leaving from day one. IMO, His comments about Gillispie are very biased.

Now, if Barnhart comes out and says this, then it's a different story.

kentubbybasketball
03-03-2009, 03:27 PM
Sky, you've brought that up before about Kenny Walker, but I just don't get it. Kenny Walker was very critical of Tubby as well, you act like he's a guy that never criticized Tubby and didn't want him to leave (a la kentubby). I'm sure Kenny Walker loves this program more than any of us, since it's given him so much, and he's a made his home in Kentucky and he's not even a native. I'm sure he wants Gillispie to succeed here.

Furthermore, Bill Keightley was against Tubby leaving, too... he cried like a baby when he found out as a matter of fact. Are you mad at him for being disappointed?

SkyAntoine
03-03-2009, 03:42 PM
Sky, you've brought that up before about Kenny Walker, but I just don't get it. Kenny Walker was very critical of Tubby as well, you act like he's a guy that never criticized Tubby and didn't want him to leave (a la kentubby). I'm sure Kenny Walker loves this program more than any of us, since it's given him so much, and he's a made his home in Kentucky and he's not even a native. I'm sure he wants Gillispie to succeed here.

Furthermore, Bill Keightley was against Tubby leaving, too... he cried like a baby when he found out as a matter of fact. Are you mad at him for being disappointed?
I wasn't really on the boards prior to Tubby leaving, so you may be right about Sky and his criticism of Tubby. I just was not aware of it. I know he has sung his praises since.

As for Mr. Wildcat...:rotf:...I'm not mad at anyone's disappointment of a coach leaving especially him.

Not to get political, but there is a difference between opposing the war while supporting our troops or hoping soldiers die to prove a point. I hope no one wants us to lose games just to see Gillispie go. I'm waiting for him to prove me wrong, but hoping for the best in what I'm beginning to think is a grave situation surrounding our program.

kentubbybasketball
03-03-2009, 03:44 PM
I'm confused with what you're trying to get across in your post.

SkyAntoine
03-03-2009, 03:47 PM
I'm confused with what you're trying to get across in your post.

Voicing concern is fine. Praying for a collapse of UK to see a change is bad.

Billy G is our coach and we need to hope for the best. You see some really bad UK fans on TCP that want nothing more than to see Gillispie go even if it takes the program down.

kentubbybasketball
03-03-2009, 03:49 PM
People said they wanted Tubby to lose too, so that it would be easier to let him go. So, that's nothing new, but I don't understand how you connect that with the comments Kenny Walker has made. He's been critical of Tubby and G alike. Kenny Walker, as a matter of fact, has pissed me off before with some comments on Tubby, so it's not like he's a Tubby apologist, who's bitter and will therefore be biased when it comes to Gillispie. As a matter of fact, Kenny Walker has access to practices, or at least he did a few years back.

LSUTigers1404
03-03-2009, 03:51 PM
Obviously you guys are more in the know about this than me, but something just isn't right. The fact that the SEC is in the current state it is in, Kentucky starting 5-0 with Meeks and Patterson, I just don't see how this is even possible. When Kentucky started 5-0, I figured we would be chasing them all year and hoped that we could maybe upset them and tie them or finish a game or 2 behind them for the SEC title. I did not see this coming at all from Kentucky.

SkyAntoine
03-03-2009, 03:53 PM
Obviously you guys are more in the know about this than me, but something just isn't right. The fact that the SEC is in the current state it is in, Kentucky starting 5-0 with Meeks and Patterson, I just don't see how this is even possible. When Kentucky started 5-0, I figured we would be chasing them all year and hoped that we could maybe upset them and tie them or finish a game or 2 behind them for the SEC title. I did not see this coming at all from Kentucky.

Add anger and frustration to your observations and we'll make you an honorary UK fan.:)

kentubbybasketball
03-03-2009, 03:54 PM
Me either. That three game skid to Ole Miss, vs USC, and vs MSU shouldn't have happened. MSU is the only game we should have lost IMO. Ever since then, we've been struggling. Our schedule was backloaded to begin with, so we need to start out great and then maybe split the rest of the game in the second half of the schedule.

I think Gillispie's rotation or lack thereof, has really hurt UK some. Patterson getting injured certainly didn't help matters.

LSUTigers1404
03-03-2009, 03:56 PM
Again, I don't claim to be an expert on this. But when Gillispie was hired, I got the vibe that UK fans weren't very happy with it from the start.

kentubbybasketball
03-03-2009, 03:59 PM
Some assumed Billy Donovan would be the next coach, afterall, he had Kentucky ties as a former assistant and when Tubby got the job, Billy D was the other option.

I wanted Billy G, because I thought he was a fantastic coach, and while I still think he's good, I've been shocked by his lack of adjustments and the oddness of his rotations. I'm not second guessing our choice, but I wonder how UK would have been had we gotten Tom Crean.

NCMISSSTFAN
03-03-2009, 05:43 PM
That's the thing, we aren't losing more than we are used to. They are mad because we are losing the same amount in Gillispie's first 2 years as Tubby's last 2 years. Funny thing is, he's winning the same amount of games with the equal or less talent than Tubby.

Tubby Smith's teams didn't lose many games to the Gardner Webb's and VMI's though.

NCMISSSTFAN
03-03-2009, 05:50 PM
UK great Mike Casey on Billy Gillispie:

“First of all, I think he’s in over his head. I think he has no clue as to what’s going on in the game.”

“I just don’t think he knows what it means to coach at UK. I hate to say it, but a change has to be made, and soon, or we’re going to lose what UK is all about. Ask (Richie) Farmer, or (John) Pelphrey, or (Deron) Feldhaus what it means to play at Kentucky. Ask them what that “Kentucky” across their chests means. Somehow we’ve let that go. If we lost we came out fightin’ mad; we weren’t going to lose two in a row. It’s beyond me why (Mitch) Barnhart and (Lee) Todd put up with it.”

I've said this before, In my opinion UK can't just be satisfied with making the tourney or winning 20 games a season. Traditionally, UK is like UNC, Duke, UCLA etc...you will never see any of those teams down for too long. UK has been somewhat down though and it doesn't seem like anything will change soon. It's kinda weird seeing UK as an average team but that's what they have become over the past few seasons. No disrespect to the fans either, it just comes from the tradition and expectations of being a traditional power house.

OffThePorch
03-03-2009, 06:16 PM
Mississippi State has won 3 in a row vs UK.... enough said. :lol:

UK should go big time.

Tennessee
03-03-2009, 08:26 PM
From Wikipedia...


Gillispie often does not have time to even shop for groceries, once going as long as six months without any food in his refrigerator. For this reason his breakfast often consists of peanut butter crackers and Dr Pepper purchased at a local convenience store near his home

They say a good breakfast is the key to a good day, so maybe the solution is simple...Get an ESPN reporter in the sack, get her to get up early and cook you a good breakfast, and all is solved :cheers:

kentubbybasketball
03-04-2009, 11:31 AM
I've said this before, In my opinion UK can't just be satisfied with making the tourney or winning 20 games a season. Traditionally, UK is like UNC, Duke, UCLA etc...you will never see any of those teams down for too long. UK has been somewhat down though and it doesn't seem like anything will change soon. It's kinda weird seeing UK as an average team but that's what they have become over the past few seasons. No disrespect to the fans either, it just comes from the tradition and expectations of being a traditional power house.

I don't think anything you've said has been disrespectful to UK fans. From 1991 to 2005 UK was always the best in the SEC or close and around the top in the country. We'll get it back. It's cyclical.

MissKitty
03-04-2009, 11:37 AM
My frustration is the same this year as it has been in the past several years. One night this team looks like they can beat anybody, next night out, they look like an 8th grade team that has never played together before.

I don't know what the problem is, but it needs to be solved.

We are KENTUCKY FANS and we are always going to have opinions and be upset when we lose. Even when Pitino had his run, I remember being fighting mad when he refused to stop pressing agianst South Carolina in Rupp on Senior Day. BJ Mackie ate our lunch, and Pitino refused to make adjustments to stop the USC guards.

Same thing happened in 97 against Arizona in the National Championship Game. Simon and Bibby just kept driving to the basket after they broke the press for easy baskets. Our guys were absolutely worn out, and Pitino refused to stop pressing, or make any type of adjustments. We should have won that game and made it 8 instead of 7.

Bottom line is we know basketball, it is part of our lives from the time we are big enough to walk. We know they game, we know what to expect, and when a team/coach doesn't meet those expectations we get fired up.

I'm so bad, that I can't watch a UK game on TV with anyone else in the room.

I do believe Billy G has passion for the game. I also believe he is in a bit over his head and gets overwhelmed by it all at times. I don't understand why certian players get so much PT. I also don't understand why when he gets a group that is working, why he goes back to the same group that can't get it done.

kentubbybasketball
03-04-2009, 11:39 AM
I think we've looked good some nights and bad others based upon how Porter is guarded. Now, I'm not pinning this at his feet, because he's my second favorite player on the team, but we looked great vs UT at Rupp because UT surprisingly didn't really press him in the backcourt. The next game versus USC in Columbia, Downey was hawking the ball, and Porter really had no chacne.

GatorMan32
03-04-2009, 11:52 AM
Billy G has a strong personality. When you're winning, you are celebrated for it. When you're not winning the way the demands require you to, you just rub people the wrong way. I think that is a factor here for Billy G.

He was hyped as a guy who would get it done and fast. The way last year went in SEC play, people thought he had UK primed. He boasts two of the top 5 or 6 players in the league but probably won't get a first day bye in Tampa. UK fans want more. They thought he would deliver more. Its the most pressure packed college basketball job there is. A job like that requires a strong personality or it will eat you up. Billy Clyde has that. Its just a bitter irony that such a required trait can also bite you in the end when things don't run smooth.

MissKitty
03-04-2009, 11:59 AM
Good point GM, Pitino was much the same way. Tubby was the opposite of the Pitino and Billy G. Tubby was a truly nice guy, neither Pitino or Gillispie are truly nice guys. They have sharp tongues and tick folks off at times.

Honestly, Tubby left our program in a mess, and it's going to take more than 2 years to fix it. I just don't understand some things I'm seeing on the court at this time and that really troubles me as a UK Fan.

kentubbybasketball
03-04-2009, 03:13 PM
Maybe we don't have the talent to be vintage Kentucky, but to say Tubby left the program in a mess is irrelevant, when it comes to how Billy G is coaching this team. Whether Tubby left this program in a mess has nothing to do with Billy not making in game adjustments.

ANd, honestly, LSU and USC were left in deeper messes than UK. Their previous coaches had losing records, and didn't even get to the NCAAT. Billy G was left with 5 SEC caliber players at least and a team that won 22 games and went to the second round of the NCAAT. Trent Johnson and Darrin Horn didn't wait to get "their players" to win, and UK shouldn't either. As a matter of fact, G won last year without his players (12-4 in the SEC).

kentubbybasketball
03-04-2009, 03:15 PM
Billy G has a strong personality. When you're winning, you are celebrated for it. When you're not winning the way the demands require you to, you just rub people the wrong way. I think that is a factor here for Billy G.

He was hyped as a guy who would get it done and fast. The way last year went in SEC play, people thought he had UK primed. He boasts two of the top 5 or 6 players in the league but probably won't get a first day bye in Tampa. UK fans want more. They thought he would deliver more. Its the most pressure packed college basketball job there is. A job like that requires a strong personality or it will eat you up. Billy Clyde has that. Its just a bitter irony that such a required trait can also bite you in the end when things don't run smooth.

I agree, but there's some hinting around by some folks that Tubby didn't have the "strong personality" to handle the job. If you last here 10 years, I guarantee you've got a strong personality, especially if for most of those 10 years you were ridiculed.

All of our coaches (Pitino, Gillispie, and yes Tubby) have strong personalities... it's just manifested differently by them.

GatorMan32
03-04-2009, 04:51 PM
Well there is a difference between strong personality and fortitude. You really have to have both. The latter being more important and Tubby had tons of it. It also helps to win a NC early like he did.

Billy G comes in at a time when UK has not been to the Final 4 in a while, so there is also less patience. In the 90's, UK was on a roll. A lot of factors are not in his favor here and the only way for him to turn that around is a deep run in March.

kentubbybasketball
03-04-2009, 05:00 PM
GM32, I see what you're saying, but maybe one of the worst things Tubby did was when a national championship early, especially in his first year. That put expectations thru the roof, especially since he won with a team that Pitino admits he wouldn't have won with to this day.

I think anybody that's successful at this profession has to have a strong personality and their families do too. Expectations have a way of eating the weak up.

NCMISSSTFAN
03-04-2009, 06:16 PM
I agree, but there's some hinting around by some folks that Tubby didn't have the "strong personality" to handle the job. If you last here 10 years, I guarantee you've got a strong personality, especially if for most of those 10 years you were ridiculed.

All of our coaches (Pitino, Gillispie, and yes Tubby) have strong personalities... it's just manifested differently by them.

I don't know what people considered a strong personality but I know he coached with passion and fire that you don't see in alot of coaches, when Tubby Smith would get mad, he would give the player(s) a look that would scare the heck out of any player.