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kentubbybasketball
02-26-2009, 04:55 PM
Is most of UK's disappointments this year Tubby's fault? In the UK board and at other UK boards, there's been implications that this is Tubby's fault. Honest question.

SECgamecock453
02-26-2009, 05:01 PM
Everyone's fault - Meeks - Patterson - Tubby

NCMISSSTFAN
02-26-2009, 05:01 PM
Absolutely not, I know there are some of Tubby's guys left on the roster but BG has his guys there too and has 2 absolute studs in Meeks and Patterson. Tubby Smith doesn't have a thing to do with whats going on with this team.

kentubbybasketball
02-26-2009, 05:03 PM
I agree completely NCMISSSTFAN, and if anything Billy Gillispie has Tubby to thank for Meeks and Patterson. (Had Tubby not started Pat's recruitment, we wouldn't have locked him up by the time Billy G got here and Billy G admitted it).

UA37
02-26-2009, 05:06 PM
CBG's teams look like mark Gottfried's teams. The fans are reacting about the same way too.

OffThePorch
02-26-2009, 05:08 PM
i dont think so.
imo Tubby is a better floor Coach than Billy. neither seem to be great recruiters. UK should go get Calipari or Petino... whatever it takes.

kentubbybasketball
02-26-2009, 05:10 PM
CBG's teams look like mark Gottfried's teams. The fans are reacting about the same way too.

We disagree considerably on CMG's fate and how it was played out especially, but CMG did have 10 and half years as coach. Billy hasn't finished his second here yet.

NCMISSSTFAN
02-26-2009, 05:11 PM
I know I made some people mad the last time I said this but I will say it again, if Tubby had this same team that Coach BG has, I gaurantee they would be better. No disrespect to BG because he's done a good job at previous jobs and obviously knows how to coach the game of basketball, but that doesn't necessarily mean he's the man for UK. UK is a different type of school, you HAVE to win there. They are on the levels of Duke and UNC, you never rebuild, you always reload.

NCMISSSTFAN
02-26-2009, 05:12 PM
We disagree considerably on CMG's fate and how it was played out especially, but CMG did have 10 and half years as coach. Billy hasn't finished his second here yet.

Good point....how long are UK fans going to give him in your opinion.

kentubbybasketball
02-26-2009, 05:13 PM
NC, I'm not sure that's offensive, of course, Tubby would have done better. The main reason why would be that we would have two better point guards likely. One, Derrick Jasper likely wouldn't have transferred IMO, although he was homesick, I believe being injured is what made him even more homesick, so he wanted to go back home. Secondly, Matt Jones, who's in the know, made it seem like had Tubby stayed Jai Lucas would have come here originally. That would be two PGs that would have pushed us over the top and maybe we're only a game or two behind LSU, instead of 4 games back.

kentubbybasketball
02-26-2009, 05:15 PM
Good point....how long are UK fans going to give him in your opinion.

Personally, I support Billy Gillispie until he's done here... I really feel that way. I mean, I may joke about him and stuff, but best believe, if some non-UK fan came trying to talk crap about him, I'd have his back. SO, I like Gillispie, and I want him to succeed here even more than Tubby and Pitino did. Perhaps, he gets 4 or 5 years, but if we're still on the bubble after 4 or 5 years, I gotta say you gotta fire him, especially since all those young players he's recruiting for the most part would already be in the program.

Once UK fans are firmly against you, you're really at the point of no return, and if Billy Gillispie misses the NCAAT he's gonna be in that position with some UK fans certainly.

Doyle Hargraves
02-26-2009, 05:32 PM
Personally, I support Billy Gillispie until he's done here... I really feel that way. I mean, I may joke about him and stuff, but best believe, if some non-UK fan came trying to talk crap about him, I'd have his back. SO, I like Gillispie, and I want him to succeed here even more than Tubby and Pitino did. Perhaps, he gets 4 or 5 years, but if we're still on the bubble after 4 or 5 years, I gotta say you gotta fire him, especially since all those young players he's recruiting for the most part would already be in the program.

Once UK fans are firmly against you, you're really at the point of no return, and if Billy Gillispie misses the NCAAT he's gonna be in that position with some UK fans certainly.

What y'all need is a HC that truly understands Kentucky BB. :think:

Wanna trade? :D

weegeman
02-26-2009, 05:35 PM
Some points to consider:
Tubby won SEC Championships with his own players.
He was an overtime away from a final four with his own players.
He had us ranked as the overall #1 seed twice with his own players.
He won National Coach of the Year with his own players.
Tubby recruited the likes of Tayshaun Prince, Keith Bogans, Kalena Azabuike...
Tubby recruited the class of Rondo, Bradley, Morris, and Crawford.
Tubby beat Rick Pitino and Louisville his last three seasons, one of which U of Smell went to the Final Four.

That being said, he also recruited the likes of Luke Ass Orbit Zoot, Shagari Safari, Sheray Thomas, Porter, etc.

At least with Tubby we won the games we were supposed to win 9 times out of 10. We would never lose to a G-Webb, VMI, etc. I bet we didn't lose by ten or more points more than 10 times in Tubby's decade at Kentucky. Under BCG, we have gotten blown out numerous times already.

But it's only been less than two seasons. IMO, BCG's future will be defined next season, with or without Meeks and Patterson. Year 3 will tell his story.

FWIW, I think if you gave Tubby this exact same team we would have easily won the East, be a lock for the NCAA tournament, and be playing for a good seed instead of playing to make the tournament.

XPS
02-26-2009, 05:37 PM
NC, I'm not sure that's offensive, of course, Tubby would have done better. The main reason why would be that we would have two better point guards likely. One, Derrick Jasper likely wouldn't have transferred IMO, although he was homesick, I believe being injured is what made him even more homesick, so he wanted to go back home. Secondly, Matt Jones, who's in the know, made it seem like had Tubby stayed Jai Lucas would have come here originally. That would be two PGs that would have pushed us over the top and maybe we're only a game or two behind LSU, instead of 4 games back.


Lets not forget about Mike Williams either, a man among boys to along with Porter, Harris and Stewart. That's a preseason final 4 team in itself...

kentubbybasketball
02-26-2009, 05:38 PM
Some points to consider:
Tubby won SEC Championships with his own players.
He was an overtime away from a final four with his own players.
He had us ranked as the overall #1 seed twice with his own players.
He won National Coach of the Year with his own players.
Tubby recruited the likes of Tayshaun Prince, Keith Bogans, Kalena Azabuike...
Tubby recruited the class of Rondo, Bradley, Morris, and Crawford.
Tubby beat Rick Pitino and Louisville his last three seasons, one of which U of Smell went to the Final Four.

That being said, he also recruited the likes of Luke Ass Orbit Zoot, Shagari Safari, Sheray Thomas, Porter, etc.

At least with Tubby we won the games we were supposed to win 9 times out of 10. We would never lose to a G-Webb, VMI, etc. I bet we didn't lose by ten or more points more than 10 times in Tubby's decade at Kentucky. Under BCG, we have gotten blown out numerous times already.

But it's only been less than two seasons. IMO, BCG's future will be defined next season, with or without Meeks and Patterson. Year 3 will tell his story.

FWIW, I think if you gave Tubby this exact same team we would have easily won the East, be a lock for the NCAA tournament, and be playing for a good seed instead of playing to make the tournament.

weege, I've never agreed with you more. I could just hug you right now. Rep!

BTW, if I hear another person say when Billy G gets his players in here, I'm gonna croke... how great is Trent Johnson and Darrin Horn gonna be when they "actually get their own players in?"

BTW, in G's head coaching jobs, he's always won with a mix of the previous coach's players, because he's never been anywhere more than 3 years.

You did leave off Patrick Patterson and Jodie Meeks from your list of Tubby recruits though. Even guys like Erik Daniels and Chuck Hayes and Gerald Fitch made the NBA under Coach Smith.

weegeman
02-26-2009, 05:40 PM
weege, I've never agreed with you more. I could just hug you right now. Rep!

BTW, if I hear another person say when Billy G gets his players in here, I'm gonna croke... how great is Trent Johnson and Darrin Horn gonna be when they "actually get their own players in?"

That's a good point. XPS has a good point about the mighty Mike Williams, Porter, Harris and Stewart Final Four team too, though. This debate could go on forever. Actually, I think it already has gone on forever.

XPS
02-26-2009, 05:43 PM
Some points to consider:
Tubby won SEC Championships with his own players.
He was an overtime away from a final four with his own players.
He had us ranked as the overall #1 seed twice with his own players.
He won National Coach of the Year with his own players.
Tubby recruited the likes of Tayshaun Prince, Keith Bogans, Kalena Azabuike...
Tubby recruited the class of Rondo, Bradley, Morris, and Crawford.
Tubby beat Rick Pitino and Louisville his last three seasons, one of which U of Smell went to the Final Four.

That being said, he also recruited the likes of Luke Ass Orbit Zoot, Shagari Safari, Sheray Thomas, Porter, etc.

At least with Tubby we won the games we were supposed to win 9 times out of 10. We would never lose to a G-Webb, VMI, etc. I bet we didn't lose by ten or more points more than 10 times in Tubby's decade at Kentucky. Under BCG, we have gotten blown out numerous times already.

But it's only been less than two seasons. IMO, BCG's future will be defined next season, with or without Meeks and Patterson. Year 3 will tell his story.

FWIW, I think if you gave Tubby this exact same team we would have easily won the East, be a lock for the NCAA tournament, and be playing for a good seed instead of playing to make the tournament.


Even with Porter running the show? Tubby's team is also on the bubble where he plays a cupcake schedule now. If Tubby is so great, then why did have a 10 loss season and a 8 seed with the #1 recruiting class in the country, not to mention with Rondo one of the best PG's in the NBA?

kentubbybasketball
02-26-2009, 05:43 PM
weege, what's XPS' point about Porter and Harris? What makes that good or even somewhat good? Billy G recruited players at both positions in this class (Liggins/Galloway and Miller) who are more talent by even my own admission than Porter and Harris,but it's been Gillispie's that's chosen to still play them 30 minutes a game off and on this year instead of Liggins and Miller and Galloway. Gillispie obviously is fond of Tubby's recruiting, since all 5 starters are Tubby guys theoretically.

Now, you're talking out of both sides of your mouth. Be that way. And, FWIW, those guys you mentioned that Tubby brought here might not get us to the final four, but the only final four we could have a chance at could be the NIT this year.

XPS
02-26-2009, 05:46 PM
weege, I've never agreed with you more. I could just hug you right now. Rep!

BTW, if I hear another person say when Billy G gets his players in here, I'm gonna
croke... how great is Trent Johnson and Darrin Horn gonna be when they "actually get their own players in?"

BTW, in G's head coaching jobs, he's always won with a mix of the previous coach's players, because he's never been anywhere more than 3 years.

You did leave off Patrick Patterson and Jodie Meeks from your list of Tubby recruits though. Even guys like Erik Daniels and Chuck Hayes and Gerald Fitch made the NBA under Coach Smith.

When Billy G gets a full roster of his players and especially a real PG, then things will be different..

kentubbybasketball
02-26-2009, 05:46 PM
Even with Porter running the show? Tubby's team is also on the bubble where he plays a cupcake schedule now. If Tubby is so great, then why did have a 10 loss season and a 8 seed with the #1 recruiting class in the country, not to mention with Rondo one of the best PG's in the NBA?

Oh to be an 8 seed this year.

And, Tubby has nobody on his team that UK would recruit other than Colton Iverson and Ralph Sampson, whom Gillispie recruited, but Tubby outrecruited him for. Tubby certainly is not bringing up the rear of the NCAAT with Patrick Patterson and Jodie Meeks, two bonafide stars.

And, Tubby is actually coaching in a league that's up this year.

kentubbybasketball
02-26-2009, 05:47 PM
When Billy G gets a full roster of his players and especially a real PG, then things will be different..

Yeah, and when Trent Johnson gets his players, he might win the SEC... OH WAIT A MINUTE.

When Darrin Horn gets his players, he might win the SEC East... OH WAIT ON THAT TOO.

SkyAntoine
02-26-2009, 05:48 PM
Time for a little venting...
I've stated lots of times I felt it was time for Tubby to go. I used the term "stale" which KT did not like, but that was my impression of the UK program during the final Tubby years.

That being said, nothing that has happened this year should be laid at Tubby's feet. Yes, I wish we had some senior leadership to go with our lone pine-riding senior, but look at the rest of our team. Meeks is Tubby's guy. PP may or may not be BCG's recruit given the effort Tubby's crew put in to snag him. Tubby may not have had top 50 guys to finish out the roster, but there is no reason our sophomores and juniors can't be a solid supporting cast to two of the best players in the nation.

If you want to say that Gillispie had to deal with the cards dealt him last year, then that is a different argument. But, Gillispie has been the coach for two years and has had opportunity to build the team to the best that he can build them. Did we see it last night? Did we see it versus UT the last outing? What about versus UT away when Meeks scored 54? Point is, this team has no consistency and at times looks just as lost as they did the first game versus VMI.

There are things that I absolutely love about Gillispie. I love that he eats, breathes and sleeps basketball making him a good fit at Kentucky. I love that he expects perfection and only the best effort even in practice. I don't even mind his stubbornness sometimes (ie no zone) when it's producing results.

Closing in on two years with the guy...I have no idea what to expect out of him and his teams. No consistency. No showing me the method to his madness. I'm still behind him, but Kentucky fans need to see some results. Not 96-97-98 results, but some strong effort and stop it with the embarrassing loses. This is Kentucky basketball....

XPS
02-26-2009, 05:49 PM
I can remember KT bringing up the fact that Tubby isn't afraid of anybody while at UK and now he plays sisters of the blind almost evernight. What is Minn's strength of schedule in the 200 range?

Minn doesn't deserve to go to the ncaa this year either if strength of schedule is a big deal, hell they even played a div 111 school LMAO...

kentubbybasketball
02-26-2009, 05:50 PM
And, Tubby's still beating the people he should. Aftearll, VMI and Garder-Webb aren't Tubby's daddy.

Tubby may play cupcakes, but Gillispie has made Kentucky a cupcake for VMI.

kentubbybasketball
02-26-2009, 05:52 PM
Time for a little venting...
I've stated lots of times I felt it was time for Tubby to go. I used the term "stale" which KT did not like, but that was my impression of the UK program during the final Tubby years.

That being said, nothing that has happened this year should be laid at Tubby's feet. Yes, I wish we had some senior leadership to go with our lone pine-riding senior, but look at the rest of our team. Meeks is Tubby's guy. PP may or may not be BCG's recruit given the effort Tubby's crew put in to snag him. Tubby may not have had top 50 guys to finish out the roster, but there is no reason our sophomores and juniors can't be a solid supporting cast to two of the best players in the nation.

If you want to say that Gillispie had to deal with the cards dealt him last year, then that is a different argument. But, Gillispie has been the coach for two years and has had opportunity to build the team to the best that he can build them. Did we see it last night? Did we see it versus UT the last outing? What about versus UT away when Meeks scored 54? Point is, this team has no consistency and at times looks just as lost as they did the first game versus VMI.

There are things that I absolutely love about Gillispie. I love that he eats, breathes and sleeps basketball making him a good fit at Kentucky. I love that he expects perfection and only the best effort even in practice. I don't even mind his stubbornness sometimes (ie no zone) when it's producing results.

Closing in on two years with the guy...I have no idea what to expect out of him and his teams. No consistency. No showing me the method to his madness. I'm still behind him, but Kentucky fans need to see some results. Not 96-97-98 results, but some strong effort and stop it with the embarrassing loses. This is Kentucky basketball....


Amen. Gillispie could've recruited better for this year quite frankly, but since he chose not to, now he's got us arguing about the merits of Tubby's guys, because that's whom Gillispie isplaying.

BTW, if we were stale two years ago, what do you call this?

Doyle Hargraves
02-26-2009, 05:53 PM
I can remember KT bringing up the fact that Tubby isn't afraid of anybody while at UK and now he plays sisters of the blind almost evernight. What is Minn's strength of schedule in the 200 range?

Minn doesn't deserve to go to the ncaa this year either if strength of schedule is a big deal, hell they even played a div 111 school LMAO...

In all fairness.... It's Minn! :think:

kentubbybasketball
02-26-2009, 05:54 PM
Time for a little venting...
I've stated lots of times I felt it was time for Tubby to go. I used the term "stale" which KT did not like, but that was my impression of the UK program during the final Tubby years.

That being said, nothing that has happened this year should be laid at Tubby's feet. Yes, I wish we had some senior leadership to go with our lone pine-riding senior, but look at the rest of our team. Meeks is Tubby's guy. PP may or may not be BCG's recruit given the effort Tubby's crew put in to snag him. Tubby may not have had top 50 guys to finish out the roster, but there is no reason our sophomores and juniors can't be a solid supporting cast to two of the best players in the nation.

If you want to say that Gillispie had to deal with the cards dealt him last year, then that is a different argument. But, Gillispie has been the coach for two years and has had opportunity to build the team to the best that he can build them. Did we see it last night? Did we see it versus UT the last outing? What about versus UT away when Meeks scored 54? Point is, this team has no consistency and at times looks just as lost as they did the first game versus VMI.

There are things that I absolutely love about Gillispie. I love that he eats, breathes and sleeps basketball making him a good fit at Kentucky. I love that he expects perfection and only the best effort even in practice. I don't even mind his stubbornness sometimes (ie no zone) when it's producing results.

Closing in on two years with the guy...I have no idea what to expect out of him and his teams. No consistency. No showing me the method to his madness. I'm still behind him, but Kentucky fans need to see some results. Not 96-97-98 results, but some strong effort and stop it with the embarrassing loses. This is Kentucky basketball....


Why don't you just go ahead and say Gillispie hates to lose, Sky. Just go ahead... make that a feather in his cap too... and I'll show you where after last night's game he said (paraphrasing), "this isn't the end of the world."

XPS
02-26-2009, 05:54 PM
Time for a little venting...
I've stated lots of times I felt it was time for Tubby to go. I used the term "stale" which KT did not like, but that was my impression of the UK program during the final Tubby years.

That being said, nothing that has happened this year should be laid at Tubby's feet. Yes, I wish we had some senior leadership to go with our lone pine-riding senior, but look at the rest of our team. Meeks is Tubby's guy. PP may or may not be BCG's recruit given the effort Tubby's crew put in to snag him. Tubby may not have had top 50 guys to finish out the roster, but there is no reason our sophomores and juniors can't be a solid supporting cast to two of the best players in the nation.

If you want to say that Gillispie had to deal with the cards dealt him last year, then that is a different argument. But, Gillispie has been the coach for two years and has had opportunity to build the team to the best that he can build them. Did we see it last night? Did we see it versus UT the last outing? What about versus UT away when Meeks scored 54? Point is, this team has no consistency and at times looks just as lost as they did the first game versus VMI.

There are things that I absolutely love about Gillispie. I love that he eats, breathes and sleeps basketball making him a good fit at Kentucky. I love that he expects perfection and only the best effort even in practice. I don't even mind his stubbornness sometimes (ie no zone) when it's producing results.

Closing in on two years with the guy...I have no idea what to expect out of him and his teams. No consistency. No showing me the method to his madness. I'm still behind him, but Kentucky fans need to see some results. Not 96-97-98 results, but some strong effort and stop it with the embarrassing loses. This is Kentucky basketball....


Simple FACT, Tubby didn't leave the program like he found it, the program's last final 4 1998 with Pitino's players, who in the hell is at fault for that? Tubby Tubby Tubby thats who, before Tubby and his misfits left, he was recruiting with American college for recruits and thats why Tubby the greatest coach in some peoples minds(only a myth) had to go.

I would like to see what Rondo could do for G or Bradley for 3 years, Tubby left G PORTER and Pitino left Tubby TURNER...

kentubbybasketball
02-26-2009, 05:57 PM
SIMPLE FACT, Tubby also left Jodie Meeks... thank you very much. And, G isn't sensical enough to even play him when we're down 22 points... I mean, if you need to make up points... who better to turn to them Tubby's guy, Jodie Meeks.

kentubbybasketball
02-26-2009, 05:59 PM
BTW, thanks to all 16 of you actually voted with your brain in this poll.

weegeman
02-26-2009, 06:01 PM
I'm not talking out of both sides of my mouth KT. I tried it and it's hard to do and sounds funny. I'm one of the biggest Tubby defenders there is, but I acknowledge that some of his recruiting simply didn't pan out, such as Luke Ass...

XPS, IMO, and from everything I've heard and read, that talented team just did not like each other. There was too much tension between Rondo, Sparks, and Bobby Perry. Also, I too believe Jasper would still be here if Tubby was here, and his point guard play would have made a HUGE difference this season.

Me, personally, I wish Tubby had kept recruiting his style of players such as Chuck Hayes, Cliff Hawkins, Erik Daniels, Gerald Fitch, etc. His best recruiting class on paper just didn't pan out. With Tubby, I always felt like we had a legitimate shot at winning the SEC Tournament every single season he was here, all of them. To BCG's credit, I thought we could win the SEC T last year and I think we have a shot this year, but the beatdowns and inconsistent play have to stop. And so do the head games.

As I have said in the past, had Keith Bogans not hurt his ankle, we would not even be having this conversation.

SkyAntoine
02-26-2009, 06:01 PM
Amen. Gillispie could've recruited better for this year quite frankly, but since he chose not to, now he's got us arguing about the merits of Tubby's guys, because that's whom Gillispie isplaying.

BTW, if we were stale two years ago, what do you call this?
By stale, I mean there was a lot of complacency with the program. Yes, there was a division amongst fans on Tubby, but I think we lost a little of the spark with the allure of Kentucky basketball.

The program sure got a spark with hiring Gillispie. I just hope we don't follow the old adage, "when you play with fire..."

kentubbybasketball
02-26-2009, 06:02 PM
I'm not talking out of both sides of my mouth KT. I tried it and it's hard to do and sounds funny. I'm one of the biggest Tubby defenders there is, but I acknowledge that some of his recruiting simply didn't pan out, such as Luke Ass..

Well, maybe you're the only person in America that's 100% perfect at their job.

But, spanning Tubby's recruiting, I'm very impressed with what he did with the recruits he brought in. Tubby won with his players and players he inherited. Gillispie is winning with neither.

weegeman
02-26-2009, 06:03 PM
Well, maybe you're the only person in America that's 100% perfect at their job.

That's a very good point. I do excel at my job of running a message board.

kentubbybasketball
02-26-2009, 06:05 PM
By stale, I mean there was a lot of complacency with the program. Yes, there was a division amongst fans on Tubby, but I think we lost a little of the spark with the allure of Kentucky basketball.

The program sure got a spark with hiring Gillispie. I just hope we don't follow the old adage, "when you play with fire..."

Well, maybe that's the case for you, but I could point you to a lot of people in Paducah who's interest has waned in UK since Billy G took over. Not even I get as mad or sad as I used to when I miss a UK game now. I dont' even read the papers like I used to do when Tubby was here. So, I think that's just your perception of how things were.

weegeman
02-26-2009, 06:05 PM
My biggest knock against Tubby - Saul Smith playing at UK (although he was an average player, not bad) caused us to not get better point guards at the time. That was just enough difference to cost us elite status for those years.

boxvic
02-26-2009, 06:06 PM
Simple FACT, Gillispie is making a not-that-great team even worse and turning a stagnant (because yea, the program was kinda stagnant under Smith) but solid program into one of the worst power conference programs in the country. Yeah, who is putting UK, the most historic basketball program in the country, on the same footing as Siena? Gillispie that's who!

kentubbybasketball
02-26-2009, 06:06 PM
Whatever, weege. You (and Sky) were just hyping the Fitch, Daniels, adn Hayes teams... well, we had Cliff Hawkins then and he was very good at running a team... oh to have him back.

SkyAntoine
02-26-2009, 06:07 PM
Why don't you just go ahead and say Gillispie hates to lose, Sky. Just go ahead... make that a feather in his cap too... and I'll show you where after last night's game he said (paraphrasing), "this isn't the end of the world."
Didn't hear that....

Could he already be getting tired of coaching Kentucky? I think it's safe to say there is no way he could have prepared himself for the fishbowl he's in.

kentubbybasketball
02-26-2009, 06:07 PM
That's a very good point. I do excel at my job of running a message board.

yeah ok.

weegeman
02-26-2009, 06:08 PM
I guess what it all boils down to is do you prefer Tubby's bug eyes or BCG's smirk?

kentubbybasketball
02-26-2009, 06:09 PM
I prefer Tubby's winning to Gillispie's losing, weege. That's how simple it is.

weegeman
02-26-2009, 06:11 PM
Maybe Gillispie should add the bug eyes.

weegeman
02-26-2009, 06:11 PM
Did anyone ever notice that Tubby voice is identical to Richard Pryor's voice? I noticed it one night after watching "The Toy".

SkyAntoine
02-26-2009, 06:13 PM
Whatever, weege. You (and Sky) were just hyping the Fitch, Daniels, adn Hayes teams... well, we had Cliff Hawkins then and he was very good at running a team... oh to have him back.

KT, some of my favorite players at UK have been Tubby's guys: Hayes and Fitch are probably in my top 10.

I told you recently Tubby's recruiting style ("sniper" vs. shotgun) is big when it lands guys, but can be big when it fails. Exact same with Gillispie's "fast and furious taking whoever we can because they're good" style. At Kentucky, we cannot afford down years in recruiting, winning, excitement, etc. Maybe my expectations are unreasonable...

SkyAntoine
02-26-2009, 06:15 PM
I guess what it all boils down to is do you prefer Tubby's bug eyes or BCG's smirk?
What smirk...
http://www.secfanatics.com/vbulletin/picture.php?albumid=3&pictureid=36

XPS
02-26-2009, 09:56 PM
Words from Eddie Fogler


He was at the game and then interviewed on a Nashville radio station. He said Michael Porter would have been Pitino's Steve Massilino....He said that Vandy's Tinsley and Taylor would start for us...he said they were not great but that is where our talent is. He said give Gillispie 4 years...then if he looks down the bench and is still playing players like we have now in the junior class other than Meeks and also Patterson...then he needs to go. He said what most of us know...the program was in really bad shape talent wise...It will take 3-4 years to fix it. He also said our assistants were scouring the land in search of an impact pg to go with Vilinaro.........Fogler is not a UK fan but was fair in what he said...bottom line is said other than Meeks, Patterson, and the two Freshman Miller and Liggins that our talent is at an all time UK low...I know that is hard for some of us to take...

Of course Eddie hates Tubby and knows nothing LOL...

GR8NESS
02-26-2009, 10:17 PM
Partially. He created the mess, Gillispie compounds it by playing the crappy players instead of just letting the Freshmen learn.

GatorMan32
02-26-2009, 10:34 PM
i voted yes to be a smart*** but dont believe it.

orange&white
02-26-2009, 10:38 PM
Tubby left Billy G with Bradley last year. Billy G knew in two recruiting classes that he needed a point guard and it just hasn't worked out yet.

orange&white
02-26-2009, 10:44 PM
Words from Eddie Fogler


He was at the game and then interviewed on a Nashville radio station. He said Michael Porter would have been Pitino's Steve Massilino....He said that Vandy's Tinsley and Taylor would start for us...he said they were not great but that is where our talent is. He said give Gillispie 4 years...then if he looks down the bench and is still playing players like we have now in the junior class other than Meeks and also Patterson...then he needs to go. He said what most of us know...the program was in really bad shape talent wise...It will take 3-4 years to fix it. He also said our assistants were scouring the land in search of an impact pg to go with Vilinaro.........Fogler is not a UK fan but was fair in what he said...bottom line is said other than Meeks, Patterson, and the two Freshman Miller and Liggins that our talent is at an all time UK low...I know that is hard for some of us to take...

Of course Eddie hates Tubby and knows nothing LOL...

I heard the interview in Nashville and he didn't complement Miller or Liggins either and never said UK talent was at an all time low. He stated that the only role player UK has that would be in the Top 8 rotation of the top SEC teams was Perry Stevenson. He said you can't win national titles like UK fans want with guys like Miller or Liggins even in the future. All the rest is correct. Basically just said their team isn't talented enough at all and most wouldn't even get to play at any other SEC school.

kentubbybasketball
02-27-2009, 08:12 AM
Tubby left Billy G with Bradley last year. Billy G knew in two recruiting classes that he needed a point guard and it just hasn't worked out yet.

That's exactly right, and if we want to be technical Tubby left G with Derrick Jasper as well. But, reading Sue Jasper's comments, Billy basically ran him off by insisting to play him although he were injured.

Michael Porter wasn't ever meant to be a PG at UK, seeing as how we recruited DJas in the same class, to start at the point position right away. Billy went out and got Liggins, a better PG down the road, and he's (Billy Gillispie) is choosing not to play him.

I do find it interesting though that Eddie Fogler of all people is the king recruiter. USC ran him off in 2001, because he let his own recruiting get stagnant.

Thunder Gulch
02-27-2009, 09:53 AM
Two of the top 5-6 guys in the league play for KY, but they want to blame the old coach??? It's Jeanine Edward's fault for distracting Gillespie.

kentubbybasketball
02-27-2009, 12:42 PM
I heard the interview in Nashville and he didn't complement Miller or Liggins either and never said UK talent was at an all time low. He stated that the only role player UK has that would be in the Top 8 rotation of the top SEC teams was Perry Stevenson. He said you can't win national titles like UK fans want with guys like Miller or Liggins even in the future. All the rest is correct. Basically just said their team isn't talented enough at all and most wouldn't even get to play at any other SEC school.

Thanks for you unbiased take.

XPS
02-27-2009, 03:50 PM
The posters who claim Tubby would do better with this years team, take a look at the results of the previous 2 years before G took over...

Here is the 06 roster with the previous #1 recruiting class

Rajon Rondo
Joe Crawford
Bobby Perry
Ramel Bradley
Randolph Morris
Patrick Sparks

Here are the results preseason #9 team in the country.. Wow a really good lineup and most thought so rating them preseason 9? I bet G would love to have a shot at that team, but please let the Tubby excuses begin...

22-13---9-7 in the SEC and a final #8 seed and not ranked

79-53 beat down from IU
73-46 beat down from Kansas
95-80 beat down from Fla twice Say it ain't so Tubby

07 roster without Rondo, preseason #22

Joe Crawford
Ramel Bradley
Derrick Jasper
Bobby Perry
Jodie Meeks
Randolph Morris

Results 22-12, 9-7 SEC, 8#seed unranked

Billy G doesn't get Rondo, Morris or Perry

UA37
02-27-2009, 03:58 PM
I thought Joe Crawford and Ramel Bradley matured and played significantly better in their senior years as most players do. Alonzo Gee is an example. He's always been decent, but in his senior year he's played much better than his previous years.

Before their senior yeas i thought Crawford and Bradley showed too much immaturity. Morris and Rondo failed to give it all to the team too.

Still, UK never lost to Gardner freaking Webb or VMI or ever went one and done in the tournaments like CBG did. CBG had a nice roster last year and yall had the worst tournament performance since before Tubby.

XPS
02-27-2009, 04:07 PM
I thought Joe Crawford and Ramel Bradley matured and played significantly better in their senior years as most players do. Alonzo Gee is an example. He's always been decent, but in his senior year he's played much better than his previous years.

Before their senior yeas i thought Crawford and Bradley showed too much immaturity. Morris and Rondo failed to give it all to the team too.

Still, UK never lost to Gardner freaking Webb or VMI or ever went one and done in the tournaments like CBG did. CBG had a nice roster last year and yall had the worst tournament performance since before Tubby.


Really? The injuries UK had last year and heading into the SEC at 7-9 and be able to win 12 games even with Pat out at the end was a hell of a job.

So your blaming the record on Rondo and Morris, instead of Tubby LMAO. Who's job is it to make sure the players give it there all? All the coaches except Tubby LOL. Tubby underachieved with both of those teams and that's a fact, but by all means I'm sure you watched ever single game of those 2 seasons:rotf:

So Billy G had a better roster last year than Tubby had the previous 2 years and do NOT dodge the question..

kentubbybasketball
02-27-2009, 04:08 PM
UA37, thanks for telling it like it is. Not only did Pitino or Tubby never lose in the first round of the NCAAT. Billy G ended our streak of 20 win seasons... it's sad that we can't even win 20 games in a 31 game season now.

XPS
02-27-2009, 04:09 PM
Somebody please answer this question?

So Billy G had a better roster last year than Tubby had the previous 2 years and do NOT dodge the question..

kentubbybasketball
02-27-2009, 04:10 PM
Really? The injuries UK had last year and heading into the SEC at 7-9 and be able to win 12 games even with Pat out at the end was a hell of a job.

So your blaming the record on Rondo and Morris, instead of Tubby LMAO. Who's job is it to make sure the players give it there all? All the coaches except Tubby LOL. Tubby underachieved with both of those teams and that's a fact, but by all means I'm sure you watched ever single game of those 2 seasons:rotf:

So Billy G had a better roster last year than Tubby had the previous 2 years and do NOT dodge the question..

Check, your facts know it all. We entered into the SEC at 6-7. If we were 7-9 and then you say we win 12 games, that puts us at 19 wins... but we only managed 18 wins.

Interesting comments on Rondo BTW... these are Tubby's comments about Rondo:

While reporting a story in this week’s Sports Illustrated on Celtics guard Rajon Rondo, I spoke with his college coach, Tubby Smith. While they often weren’t on the same page at Kentucky, Smith said longstanding rumors of personality conflicts with Rondo have been overblown.

“I had no problem with Rajon,” said Smith, now the coach at Minnesota. “He kept himself eligible academically, and he did everything we asked him to do. “When Danny [Ainge, Celtics president] came to watch him play a couple of times when we were at Kentucky, I remember telling him, ‘You’re not going to find a better athlete.’ He’s as good athletically as there is in the NBA. He has great hands and anticipation, and he’s as competitive as anybody. He is really driven and determined to win.”

Smith said Rondo’s drive was at the heart of their differences.

“Sometimes that can be a sticking point for coaches because you want things done in a certain way,” he said. “That’s one of the things I talked to Doc [Rivers, Celtics coach] about, the confidence [Rondo] has in his ability and if you can live with that and get past that.”

Smith counseled Rondo to turn pro because he believed the NBA style would liberate him.

“In college you have a little more control,” Smith said of his half-court system at Kentucky, “and in the pros you have more freedom on that court. In the open court you can’t double-team the guy. No. 1, he’s going to beat his man — that’s a given because he can get to the rim against anybody. Now that he’s surrounded by great players, his game is elevated.”

But Rondo’s need to play in the open floor wasn’t the only issue at Kentucky.

“I used to say, ‘Rajon, you’re so good that you’ve got to make everybody better. This guy can’t handle that pass because he’s not as talented as you are,’ ” Smith said. “That’s why he’s fortunate he went to a team that has great players around him. I’m not so sure, and I hate to say this, but I’m not so sure it would have gone so well if he would have gone to a lesser team. He and I used to talk all the time about this, and I would tell him, ‘I know you can do that, but it’s going to take all five of us to beat this team.’ Sometimes he thought he could do it.”

Smith was speaking Sunday morning before a 72-45 rout of Northwestern.

“Coaches have differences with players all the time. Just now we’ve lost four out of five and I’m concerned about my point guard,” Smith said of Minnesota sophomore Al Nolen. “He reminds me a lot of Rajon. He’s got that stubbornness. It must be me. I must attract them.”

XPS
02-27-2009, 04:10 PM
And KT's answer don't count, because Tubby does no wrong in his eyes...

kentubbybasketball
02-27-2009, 04:11 PM
Somebody please answer this question?

So Billy G had a better roster last year than Tubby had the previous 2 years and do NOT dodge the question..

Of course, Tubby had a better roster the two years before Billy G came, and Tubby won more with them. 22 wins in each season... Billy G only won 18 games last year. We already know Tubby is a better coach, XPS.

weegeman
02-27-2009, 04:11 PM
I was including those three beatdowns as part of my "I bet Tubby didn't lose by double figures in more than ten games in his decade at Kentucky" comment. Also, those teams that beat us down were really good teams.

And I'm not buying the "Billy doesn't get a Rondo, Morris, or Perry". Billy got a Super Meeks and a Patterson.

And his starting lineup last year if healthy would have been Patterson, Jasper, Meeks, Bradley, and Crawford. That cupboard does not sound bare to me.

kentubbybasketball
02-27-2009, 04:12 PM
And KT's answer don't count, because Tubby does no wrong in his eyes...

Tubby does all wrong in your eyes, so your opinion is worth how much you paid to be a member here... NOTHING!

XPS
02-27-2009, 04:12 PM
Wee I know you will be fair, do you think G's roster was better his first year?

kentubbybasketball
02-27-2009, 04:12 PM
I was including those three beatdowns as part of my "I bet Tubby didn't lose by double figures in more than ten games in his decade at Kentucky" comment. Also, those teams that beat us down were really good teams.

And I'm not buying the "Billy doesn't get a Rondo, Morris, or Perry". Billy got a Super Meeks and a Patterson.

And his starting lineup last year if healthy would have been Patterson, Jasper, Meeks, Bradley, and Crawford. That cupboard does not sound bare to me.

The only bare cupboard is Billy G's coaching cupboard... it's running on empty when it comes to making adjustments or developing a gameplan.

kentubbybasketball
02-27-2009, 04:14 PM
Wee I know you will be fair, do you think G's roster was better his first year?

Too bad your question has nothing to do with this thread... you're the only one dodgin questions... you sound worse than Gillispie at a postgame news conference or better yet, a halftime interview.

XPS
02-27-2009, 04:15 PM
I was including those three beatdowns as part of my "I bet Tubby didn't lose by double figures in more than ten games in his decade at Kentucky" comment. Also, those teams that beat us down were really good teams.

And I'm not buying the "Billy doesn't get a Rondo, Morris, or Perry". Billy got a Super Meeks and a Patterson.

And his starting lineup last year if healthy would have been Patterson, Jasper, Meeks, Bradley, and Crawford. That cupboard does not sound bare to me.

Ok wee, does Meeks have those breaking scoring records playing for Tubby? Did Tubby ever have a 20 pt scorer in his 10 years at UK?

kentubbybasketball
02-27-2009, 04:16 PM
Ok wee, does Meeks have those breaking scoring records playing for Tubby? Did Tubby ever have a 20 pt scorer in his 10 years at UK?

No, Tubby never had a 20 point scorer, and he still had better results. Thanks for contradicting yourself, brainiac.

kentubbybasketball
02-27-2009, 04:18 PM
And KT's answer don't count, because Tubby does no wrong in his eyes...

BTW, my answers don't have to count... look at the poll, the rest of SECF has spoken, and they're laughing at how out of touch you really are.

UA37
02-27-2009, 04:18 PM
Really? The injuries UK had last year and heading into the SEC at 7-9 and be able to win 12 games even with Pat out at the end was a hell of a job.

So your blaming the record on Rondo and Morris, instead of Tubby LMAO. Who's job is it to make sure the players give it there all? All the coaches except Tubby LOL. Tubby underachieved with both of those teams and that's a fact, but by all means I'm sure you watched ever single game of those 2 seasons:rotf:

So Billy G had a better roster last year than Tubby had the previous 2 years and do NOT dodge the question..

Even with the injuries you had two senior guards who were all-sec level. You also had Patterson who might have been the second best big in the league even as a freshman. Besides those three and Stevenson you didnt have a whole lot, but having two senior guards like UK did last year is such a luxury. LSU and USC also have two 4th year guards in their back court this year. Last year the SEC champs did as well.

I'm not putting all of the blame on the players. It's Tubby's fault too, but i thought it was pretty clear that UK had a lot of me first attitudes on Tubby's last two teams. You get some guys like that and it absolutley tears up a team. Look at Bama last year with Rico and Arkansas this year. Tubby should have probably recruited better guys or hit their attitude problems on head on. Still, there's no doubt in my mind that UK would be better off with Tubby than CBG. UK can win with CBG, but it'll prob be Mark Gottfried/John Brady type winning where UK will have to out talent teams.

kentubbybasketball
02-27-2009, 04:21 PM
UA37, I have to assume you're alluding to Rondo as a "me first" player, and that perception based on Tubby's comments couldn't be farther from the truth. If anything a major problem was Morris being a bit lazy... he should have been more of a "me first" player.

weegeman
02-27-2009, 04:21 PM
I'll just say this, G did an unbelievable job in the second half of the season last year. He definitely earned his SEC coach of the year award (along with Pearl). And that's a big reason I think most people are so disappointed in him this year. We all thought the G-Webbs were never going to happen again and we started out the year with a VMI loss. We got our hopes up again during the Vegas tourney only to be let down again.

I liked the fact that Tubby would call timeouts and make adjustments constantly. He always called a 30 second timeout before the end of each half if we had the ball...

But G absolutely refuses to make in game adjustments, to call timeouts, and he has told the world that he will never play zone ever. Everybody we play knows exactly how we are going to try to guard them. Everybody has the Ole Miss blueprint of how to guard Meeks, and after the So. Car. game everybody now has a blueprint of how to guard Patterson (even though he still got 28).

I'm still behind G, but I honestly believe Tubby would have done better with this team. I really believe that. But it doesn't matter because he will never coach another game at UK. G is our coach now. If we don't make the tournament I say boot his ass out of town. I know that sounds like an irrational Cats fan, but that's the way I feel about it. We have some talent deficiencies for sure, but this team DOES have enough talent to do better than they have done, and this team SHOULD make the tourney. G can win my respect back by beating LSU Saturday and finishing the season strong. And he can quit adding insult to injury with his rude comments to reporters.

XPS
02-27-2009, 04:22 PM
Even with the injuries you had two senior guards who were all-sec level. You also had Patterson who might have been the second best big in the league even as a freshman. Besides those three and Stevenson you didnt have a whole lot, but having two senior guards like UK did last year is such a luxury. LSU and USC also have two 4th year guards in their back court this year. Last year the SEC champs did as well.

I'm not putting all of the blame on the players. It's Tubby's fault too, but i thought it was pretty clear that UK had a lot of me first attitudes on Tubby's last two teams. You get some guys like that and it absolutley tears up a team. Look at Bama last year with Rico and Arkansas this year. Tubby should have probably recruited better guys or hit their attitude problems on head on. Still, there's no doubt in my mind that UK would be better off with Tubby than CBG. UK can win with CBG, but it'll prob be Mark Gottfried/John Brady type winning where UK will have to out talent teams.


So you admit Tubby's previous 2 rosters were better than G's first right? Tubby did a poor job with a great roster in 06, yet he's going to do better with Rondo, Perry and Morris gone? Makes sense, nope.

Tubby knew the roster sucked and G signed Patterson, there were no guarantees Tubby would have had Patterson. Tubby didn't exactly have much luck recruiting against Billy D and coach K..

weegeman
02-27-2009, 04:23 PM
Ok wee, does Meeks have those breaking scoring records playing for Tubby? Did Tubby ever have a 20 pt scorer in his 10 years at UK?

Are you trying to say Gillispie has made Meeks what he is? If so, why isn't Perry Stevenson and the rest of the crew tearing it up? Meeks had a good feshman year and would have been just as big of a star under Tubby.

Tayshaun had plenty of huge games under Tubby.

UA37
02-27-2009, 04:23 PM
UA37, I have to assume you're alluding to Rondo as a "me first" player, and that perception based on Tubby's comments couldn't be farther from the truth. If anything a major problem was Morris being a bit lazy... he should have been more of a "me first" player.

me first might not be the right wording. I just thought his commitment to winning was never as high as it should have been. Thats just my observation.

kentubbybasketball
02-27-2009, 04:24 PM
weege, I don't give crap if we have talent deficiencies or not... Billy G doesn't have to add to it with his ineptness. If Tubby's recruiting was as shotty as you say, he must have done a masterful job of coaching, and that's what we need out of Billy G.

BTW, the second half of the year turned out good, because Billy G finally realized he needed to turn Bradley and Crawford loose.

We're playing the same way we did to start the season... nothing's changed. This is SEC level basketball, you have to make adjustments thruout the course of the season, otherwise Trent Johnson and Billy Donovan will certainly outcoach you.

XPS
02-27-2009, 04:25 PM
I'll just say this, G did an unbelievable job in the second half of the season last year. He definitely earned his SEC coach of the year award (along with Pearl). And that's a big reason I think most people are so disappointed in him this year. We all thought the G-Webbs were never going to happen again and we started out the year with a VMI loss. We got our hopes up again during the Vegas tourney only to be let down again.

I liked the fact that Tubby would call timeouts and make adjustments constantly. He always called a 30 second timeout before the end of each half if we had the ball...

But G absolutely refuses to make in game adjustments, to call timeouts, and he has told the world that he will never play zone ever. Everybody we play knows exactly how we are going to try to guard them. Everybody has the Ole Miss blueprint of how to guard Meeks, and after the So. Car. game everybody now has a blueprint of how to guard Patterson (even though he still got 28).

I'm still behind G, but I honestly believe Tubby would have done better with this team. I really believe that. But it doesn't matter because he will never coach another game at UK. G is our coach now. If we don't make the tournament I say boot his ass out of town. I know that sounds like an irrational Cats fan, but that's the way I feel about it. We have some talent deficiencies for sure, but this team DOES have enough talent to do better than they have done, and this team SHOULD make the tourney. G can win my respect back by beating LSU Saturday and finishing the season strong. And he can quit adding insult to injury with his rude comments to reporters.


Great post Wee. All I'm saying is Tubby was let go for a reason and lets not act like things were great before he left. G needs to get his A$$ in gear for sure...

kentubbybasketball
02-27-2009, 04:25 PM
me first might not be the right wording. I just thought his commitment to winning was never as high as it should have been. Thats just my observation.

That's fair to have an opinion, but Tubby saw him "play" every day. And, I saw him grab 19 rebounds as a 6'1 PG in a losing effort... you're not gonna convince me he didn't want to win here.

kentubbybasketball
02-27-2009, 04:26 PM
Great post Wee. All I'm saying is Tubby was let go for a reason and lets not act like things were great before he left. G needs to get his A$$ in gear for sure...

Last I checked Tubby wasn't let go, and Barnhart was very blindsided by the decision.

Billy G if he doesn't get his act together will be let go though.

And, you still fail to get it... you've never gotten anything though. Nobody said things were great when Tubby was here toward the end... but things weren't nearly this bad.

UA37
02-27-2009, 04:28 PM
So you admit Tubby's previous 2 rosters were better than G's first right? Tubby did a poor job with a great roster in 06, yet he's going to do better with Rondo, Perry and Morris gone? Makes sense, nope.

Tubby knew the roster sucked and G signed Patterson, there were no guarantees Tubby would have had Patterson. Tubby didn't exactly have much luck recruiting against Billy D and coach K..

ehh, Tubby's last two teams had no on court leadership. The rosters were probably overall better tho. When Bradford became seniors and realized that this was their last opportunity, they stepped it up. I don't remember seeing players doing that in Tubby's last two years. It seemed like Tubby's last two teams had a lot of chemistry problems. Rondo is an amazing player now, but he could still be a liability as a sophmore. His shooting was out right awful. He was still a high quality player, but you want to be confident in your pg's shooting ability.

UA37
02-27-2009, 04:30 PM
That's fair to have an opinion, but Tubby saw him "play" every day. And, I saw him grab 19 rebounds as a 6'1 PG in a losing effort... you're not gonna convince me he didn't want to win here.

Everyone wants to win, but not everyone does everything it takes to win. I call em like i see em. I don't always see it right tho.

XPS
02-27-2009, 04:30 PM
ehh, Tubby's last two teams had no on court leadership. The rosters were probably overall better tho. When Bradford became seniors and realized that this was their last opportunity, they stepped it up. I don't remember seeing players doing that in Tubby's last two years. It seemed like Tubby's last two teams had a lot of chemistry problems. Rondo is an amazing player now, but he could still be a liability as a sophmore. His shooting was out right awful. He was still a high quality player, but you want to be confident in your pg's shooting ability.

Man i wish we had Rondo, I always felt like Tubby held Rondo back in the plow horse style... G would have turned him loose like Meeks...

kentubbybasketball
02-27-2009, 04:30 PM
Exactly UA37, and you're seeing this wrong, based on what I gather from Tubby's opinion, unless Tubby doesn't know what a "winner" looks like.

Without Rondo his last year, we would have been toast, especially since we were missing Morris the first half of the season. Rondo kept us afloat. That's desire... that's doing what it takes to be a leader.

But, what really hurt leadership that year was that Kelenna Azubuike went to the NBA a year to early. Rondo was thrust into a role he didn't expect to have, especially since Kaz's exit coincided with Chuck Hayes' graduation. Chuck being the greatest leader we've had in recent memory.

kentubbybasketball
02-27-2009, 04:32 PM
Man i wish we had Rondo, I always felt like Tubby held Rondo back in the plow horse style... G would have turned him loose like Meeks...

Kinda like he's turned Liggins and Galloway loose, right? Just keep digging that hole, Gillispie lite.

Galloway afterall did average 8 assists last year for his JUCO year, now that Gillispie has turned his loose has he gotten 8 assists this entire year, other than against UF, when Gillispie did really turn him loose?

UA37
02-27-2009, 04:54 PM
Rondo was an exciting talent. There's no doubting that. He just had that uninterested look in his eyes like i've seen from guys like Rico, Rondo, Randolph, Grizzard, etc. Rondo is a winner, but i'd rather have a guard that makes everyone else better and who can hit the shot.

kentubbybasketball
02-27-2009, 04:57 PM
Well, when's the last time UK had a point guard that could hit shots (other than Ramel Bradley last year and DJas to an extent?). Tubby did acknowledge that Rondo needed to make his teammates better. Tubby says: “I used to say, ‘Rajon, you’re so good that you’ve got to make everybody better. This guy can’t handle that pass because he’s not as talented as you are. That’s why he’s fortunate he went to a team that has great players around him. I’m not so sure, and I hate to say this, but I’m not so sure it would have gone so well if he would have gone to a lesser team. He and I used to talk all the time about this, and I would tell him, ‘I know you can do that, but it’s going to take all five of us to beat this team.’ Sometimes he thought he could do it.”

But, there's a difference in being uninterested and not making others better. Rondo was very invested in UK's success. Don't confuse Rondo's passiveness with being uninterested. Ramel Bradley showed more emotion, but that doesn't mean he was more invested. But, the fact that Tubby suggests Rondo was trying to beat people 1 on 5 lets you know, he was very invested and interested in our success. Maybe that wasn't projected by his demeanor, but never judge a book by its cover.

VUownsUK
02-28-2009, 06:47 PM
I vote for 3rd option, Tubby sucked and lost 4 in a roll to my Dores and Billy Bob got KILLED by my Dores. So they are both at fault...