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VandyChuck
02-23-2009, 02:22 PM
Just kidding.

Hasn't been mentioned here, but I thought I'd bring up the absolute Gator ownage over us this year. If they played like that every game, they'd be awfully dangerous.

They shot 25-44 (57%) from 3 in the two games.

Werner, Parsons, and Walker...three guys who aren't supposed to just KILL you went 16-26 themselves.

I hope Walker decides to leave school, or becomes a horse jockey or something. I'm tired of him already.

Glad we're done with the Gators and Vols...two teams we seemed to have had a mental block against this year.

SkyAntoine
02-23-2009, 02:26 PM
Just kidding.

Hasn't been mentioned here, but I thought I'd bring up the absolute Gator ownage over us this year. If they played like that every game, they'd be awfully dangerous.

They shot 25-44 (57%) from 3 in the two games.

Werner, Parsons, and Walker...three guys who aren't supposed to just KILL you went 16-26 themselves.

I hope Walker decides to leave school, or becomes a horse jockey or something. I'm tired of him already.

Glad we're done with the Gators and Vols...two teams we seemed to have had a mental block against this year.
I want a piece of YOU!! ...well...not really you, but your team. You know what I mean.

kentubbybasketball
02-23-2009, 02:31 PM
Just kidding.

Hasn't been mentioned here, but I thought I'd bring up the absolute Gator ownage over us this year. If they played like that every game, they'd be awfully dangerous.

They shot 25-44 (57%) from 3 in the two games.

Werner, Parsons, and Walker...three guys who aren't supposed to just KILL you went 16-26 themselves.

I hope Walker decides to leave school, or becomes a horse jockey or something. I'm tired of him already.

Glad we're done with the Gators and Vols...two teams we seemed to have had a mental block against this year.


At least you held Parsons in check better in this past game. Y'all made him look like Tayshaun Prince in Memorial... getting some inside and outside.

Florida's just not a good matchup for y'all. First off, UF has enough size to really bother Ogilvy inside. Kadji blocked like two of his shots in three seconds at one point. I've noticed that Ogilvy finishes exponentially worse inside when he's facing guys with length or size to disrupt him a bit. Also, I noticed for some of the game, you had Taylor on Calathes... Taylor did well against Meeks, but I think that was easier than guarding Calathes, since Calathes is a triple threat. Calathes just seemed to have his way.

VandyChuck
02-23-2009, 02:32 PM
Vandy fans keep telling me..."well UT and UF are just a bad matchup for us"...POPPYCOCK! UK is 3-0 vs. them, and we seem to matchup well with UK, but mail it in vs. UT and UF. I think the whole "(x) team matches up poorly vs. (y) team" is a little overrated.

kentubbybasketball
02-23-2009, 02:37 PM
Vandy fans keep telling me..."well UT and UF are just a bad matchup for us"...POPPYCOCK! UK is 3-0 vs. them, and we seem to matchup well with UK, but mail it in vs. UT and UF. I think the whole "(x) team matches up poorly vs. (y) team" is a little overrated.

I don't think you can compare across the board like that. You must compare only two teams.

UT is a terrible matchup for UK... terrible. Partially because UK packs its defense in, forcing three point shots (similar to the goal of Tubby's Ball-line defense honestly). UT isn't a good three point shooting team though, and they have trouble getting the ball at the rim off penetration, because we're sagging off a bit on the perimeter. UT just can't find enough sources of offense to counteract our defense.

As for UF vs UK. That game was a crapshoot that ended up being tied up until the final 3 seconds of the game. I'm not sure either team has a matchup advantage, especially when you consider Calathes scored like Meeks normally would and Patterson was taken out, as was Hodge.

So, UK's issues with Vandy have nothing to do with our success versus UT and UF. And, Vandy certainly isn't an unfavorable matchup for us, I'd rather play Vandy over those other two... but it's much easier when you have Patrick Patterson, whose passing and scoring and rebounding inside would have affected Vandy's amount of offensive putbacks and such.

VandyChuck
02-23-2009, 02:42 PM
At least you held Parsons in check better in this past game. Y'all made him look like Tayshaun Prince in Memorial... getting some inside and outside.

Florida's just not a good matchup for y'all. First off, UF has enough size to really bother Ogilvy inside. Kadji blocked like two of his shots in three seconds at one point. I've noticed that Ogilvy finishes exponentially worse inside when he's facing guys with length or size to disrupt him a bit. Also, I noticed for some of the game, you had Taylor on Calathes... Taylor did well against Meeks, but I think that was easier than guarding Calathes, since Calathes is a triple threat. Calathes just seemed to have his way.

Ogilvy was the least of our problems. He still had 18 points (9-13 shooting). Everybody's gonna get their shot blocked every now and then. Taylor wasn't ON Calathes per se...we were in that zone most of the game. Didn't seem to work. UF just goes bombs away against us and hits everything fromt the outside. We've done that to teams in the past, so I guess we should expect it.

kentubbybasketball
02-23-2009, 02:46 PM
It's not just the blocked shots... Ogilvy has missed "tons" (comparitively speaking) bunnies this year, and I think it's due to a lack of hops to tell you the truth. SEC level bids just seem to be bothering him this year. Sure, he still got 18 points, which is very good, but he was probably capable of even more. I guess I expected more explosion by Ogilvy this year, and it's just not happened. Now, when he's up against smaller guys, he tends to play better (see the UK game earlier this week).

So, yeah, Ogilvy kept it from being even more embarrassing, but that's like saying Meeks scored 39 points vs VMI, but there's still things we could critique from that performance by Meeks (defense and shot selection being two things). Ogilvy isn't immune to criticisms and critiques.

I know you were in the zone, but at times Taylor was indeed matched up with Calathes, and I felt like Calathes controlled that, which he does to everybody anyway.

XPS
02-23-2009, 02:46 PM
Ogilvy was the least of our problems. He still had 18 points (9-13 shooting). Everybody's gonna get their shot blocked every now and then. Taylor wasn't ON Calathes per se...we were in that zone most of the game. Didn't seem to work. UF just goes bombs away against us and hits everything fromt the outside. We've done that to teams in the past, so I guess we should expect it.

I can't figure Stallings playing a zone against Fla, considering they already torched Vandy already...

VandyChuck
02-23-2009, 02:53 PM
I can't figure Stallings playing a zone against Fla, considering they already torched Vandy already...

Well, it's a 3-2 zone which is supposed to NOT let them shoot threes, but didn't seem to work. But to our credit, we did a good job of making the supplemental guys beat us and not Calathes (who we held in check for the most part), but to THEIR credit, their role players were up to the challenge. I've seen Warner look AWFUL at times this year, but he jumped up and went 3-3 from 3 against us.

VandyChuck
02-23-2009, 02:55 PM
It's not just the blocked shots... Ogilvy has missed "tons" (comparitively speaking) bunnies this year, and I think it's due to a lack of hops to tell you the truth. SEC level bids just seem to be bothering him this year. Sure, he still got 18 points, which is very good, but he was probably capable of even more. I guess I expected more explosion by Ogilvy this year, and it's just not happened. Now, when he's up against smaller guys, he tends to play better (see the UK game earlier this week).

So, yeah, Ogilvy kept it from being even more embarrassing, but that's like saying Meeks scored 39 points vs VMI, but there's still things we could critique from that performance by Meeks (defense and shot selection being two things). Ogilvy isn't immune to criticisms and critiques.


.

SEC level bigs (Chism aside) have NEVER bothered him. I don't know what games you've been watching. It's the undersized quicker guys that give him problems, which is the category Chism probably actually falls in.

XPS
02-23-2009, 02:55 PM
Well, it's a 3-2 zone which is supposed to NOT let them shoot threes, but didn't seem to work. But to our credit, we did a good job of making the supplemental guys beat us and not Calathes (who we held in check for the most part), but to THEIR credit, their role players were up to the challenge. I've seen Warner look AWFUL at times this year, but he jumped up and went 3-3 from 3 against us.

They have 4 players shooting, 42%, 41%, 38% and 36% from downtown...

Vandy420
02-23-2009, 02:56 PM
Yea I don't understand why we play that D vs. UF. They kill us everytime from 3. We have horrible 3 point defense.

We match up well with UK, and I hope we get a game vs. them in the SECT. I also hope both teams are 100% so we see a game with no what if's about the outcome.

I think alot of Ogilvy's close misses earlier in the season were due to his heal issues prventing him from being that explosive to the rim. But he does miss alot of so called gimme shots 2 ft in.

kentubbybasketball
02-23-2009, 02:57 PM
I can't figure Stallings playing a zone against Fla, considering they already torched Vandy already...

Most of the time I've seen Vandy, they've utilized that zone (but it's not like I sit around watching Vandy hoops all the time). A notable exception was last Tuesday where they basically face guarded Meeks, and I'm not sure anybody else was really guarding the other players (and why would you?).

kentubbybasketball
02-23-2009, 02:58 PM
Yea I don't understand why we play that D vs. UF. They kill us everytime from 3. We have horrible 3 point defense.

We match up well with UK, and I hope we get a game vs. them in the SECT. I also hope both teams are 100% so we see a game with no what if's about the outcome.

How are you able to say you matchup well with UK or you don't matchup well with us? Both times we've played, a potential 20-10 guy has been missing... that changes the dynamic completely.

VandyChuck
02-23-2009, 02:59 PM
They have 4 players shooting, 42%, 41%, 38% and 36% from downtown...

Yeah, and Chandler Parsons shoots 29%, but he's 70% against us. Werner and Walker are well above their shooting averages against us too.

Vandy420
02-23-2009, 03:06 PM
How are you able to say you matchup well with UK or you don't matchup well with us? Both times we've played, a potential 20-10 guy has been missing... that changes the dynamic completely.

well if they are 20-10 guys each, they cancel out. Other than Meeks Uk is pretty weak IMO. Other than Meeks and Patterson I would take every VU player over any other UK player. We match up well vs. UK. This has been proven the past 4 years. Vandy has more talent on the team right now than UK. UK is a top heavy team, past Meeks and Patterson they really just have mediocre players.

XPS
02-23-2009, 03:08 PM
well if they are 20-10 guys each, they cancel out. Other than Meeks Uk is pretty weak IMO. Other than Meeks and Patterson I would take every VU player over any other UK player. We match up well vs. UK. This has been proven the past 4 years.
Vandy has more talent on the team right now than UK. UK is a top heavy team, past Meeks and Patterson they really just have mediocre players.

LMAO are you even reading what your posting? UK will play in the ncaa tournament and Vandy will be watching, while the real mediocre players play in the NIT.

kentubbybasketball
02-23-2009, 03:10 PM
That's easy 420, last year, they both played in both games, and neither cancelled the other out. Pat dominated at Rupp, and Ogilvy dominated Pat at Memorial... so, I'm not sure about this whole cancelling out thing.

BTW, other Ogilvy, I think Vandy's record this season shows you're extremely weak.

BTW, you can't use the past four years to determine anything, since four years ago we had Chuck Hayes, Randolph Morris, etc. (in other words a different case of characters).

BTW, the Chicago Bulls won 6 titles in 8 years being top heavy.

orange&white
02-23-2009, 05:11 PM
Vandy fans keep telling me..."well UT and UF are just a bad matchup for us"...POPPYCOCK! UK is 3-0 vs. them, and we seem to matchup well with UK, but mail it in vs. UT and UF. I think the whole "(x) team matches up poorly vs. (y) team" is a little overrated.

I disagree. Tennessee has constantly played really well vs Florida whether Florida was the better team, similar teams or worse team. Vice versa they haven't played well versus Kentucky. It has to be matchups and coaching styles against each other. There is no other explanation why in four years Pearl's teams have played great against Florida and not against Kentucky when you know they are up for both games and aren't just automatically playing bad against UK. Bruce is 6-1 against UF and 3-5 against UK and UF has had quite a bit better teams than UK. Has to have something to do with match ups and styles

kentubbybasketball
02-23-2009, 06:20 PM
I wonder what effect Coach Forbes has when Pearl is gameplanning against Kentucky, since Forbes was on G's staff at TAMU. It seems like that would benefit UT.

Vandy420
02-24-2009, 08:46 AM
That's easy 420, last year, they both played in both games, and neither cancelled the other out. Pat dominated at Rupp, and Ogilvy dominated Pat at Memorial... so, I'm not sure about this whole cancelling out thing.

BTW, other Ogilvy, I think Vandy's record this season shows you're extremely YOUNG

BTW, you can't use the past four years to determine anything, since four years ago we had Chuck Hayes, Randolph Morris, etc. (in other words a different case of characters).

BTW, the Chicago Bulls won 6 titles in 8 years being top heavy.

Fixed it for you. Vandy has more talented young players, no doubt. Taylor is better than anyone on your team other than meeks and patterson, I would say the same for Goulborne. Ezelli is better than any of your big men other than patterson. Ogilvy and Patterson are pretty equal.

Just m opinion though no need to argue or get upset over my opinion.

swampmonster
02-24-2009, 11:44 AM
Talent levels in the SEC are close across the board at this time, I don't see any rational reason, anyone would claim otherwise. You may see a team have a superstar, but I see no team, with 5 of them, this year.

The variables are coaching style, injury, location, and player motivation.

kentubbybasketball
02-24-2009, 03:22 PM
Fixed it for you. Vandy has more talented young players, no doubt. Taylor is better than anyone on your team other than meeks and patterson, I would say the same for Goulborne. Ezelli is better than any of your big men other than patterson. Ogilvy and Patterson are pretty equal.

Just m opinion though no need to argue or get upset over my opinion.

So, in other words, Stallings has done a much worse coaching job than Gillispie, since Gillispie's team has done more, but has lesser talent for the most part after Meeks and Patterson (convenient you leave those two off since they're part of the team).

Just my opinion though no need to argue or get upset over my opinion.

AlaGator
02-24-2009, 03:27 PM
There are a lot of crazy things going on in the SEC. You can't depend on anything happening that makes sense!

orange&white
02-24-2009, 03:29 PM
Fixed it for you. Vandy has more talented young players, no doubt. Taylor is better than anyone on your team other than meeks and patterson, I would say the same for Goulborne. Ezelli is better than any of your big men other than patterson. Ogilvy and Patterson are pretty equal.

Just m opinion though no need to argue or get upset over my opinion.

Ezelli might end up better than Perry Stevenson, but not right now. Also UK's freshmen don't look great right now and I'm the first to say how weak their role players are (even though they torched us), but Miller has a chance to be good. Even Liggins is uber-athletic, he just has lost all confidence and is playing out of position. UK's main problem is they have no point guard. I think as weak as their role players look, a whole lot of that is because Porter and Liggins aren't capable of playing at a starting SEC point guard level on a consistent basis.

kentubbybasketball
02-24-2009, 03:34 PM
Vandy's freshmen get a lot more opportunities than ours... we're not starting a single new guy right now, whereas Vandy starts at least 2, maybe even 3 on a lot of occassions. The opportunity is there for them. Darius Miller and DeAndre Liggins are gonna be guys that get some headlines next year, and people are gonna wonder where they came from.

I'm not so sure Liggins plays out of position BTW. Last year he got his team to the National Prep Championship Game from the point guard spot. Granted, it would be nice to have him as a secondary ballhandler from the 3, but he's good enough at the position. He just has strange interactions with G, the oddest player-coach relationship many say they've ever seen at UK... where Liggins gets away with talking back. I think when G and Liggins get on the same page, there'll be no looking back. Liggins gotta learn the difference between playing the point and scoring points. That's a teachable thing though, so UK should be fine.

XPS
02-24-2009, 03:39 PM
So, in other words,
Stallings has done a much worse coaching job than
Gillispie, since
Gillispie's team has done more, but has lesser talent for the most part after
Meeks and Patterson (convenient you leave those two off since they're part of the team).

Just my opinion though no need to argue or get upset over my opinion.

He will dodge that, he doesn't even realize he is really putting Vandy down:rotf:

orange&white
02-24-2009, 03:42 PM
Vandy's freshmen get a lot more opportunities than ours... we're not starting a single new guy right now, whereas Vandy starts at least 2, maybe even 3 on a lot of occassions. The opportunity is there for them. Darius Miller and DeAndre Liggins are gonna be guys that get some headlines next year, and people are gonna wonder where they came from.

I'm not so sure Liggins plays out of position BTW. Last year he got his team to the National Prep Championship Game from the point guard spot. Granted, it would be nice to have him as a secondary ballhandler from the 3, but he's good enough at the position. He just has strange interactions with G, the oddest player-coach relationship many say they've ever seen at UK... where Liggins gets away with talking back. I think when G and Liggins get on the same page, there'll be no looking back. Liggins gotta learn the difference between playing the point and scoring points. That's a teachable thing though, so UK should be fine.

Liggins could improve, but normally decision making at the point is something that players are born with. Coaching and experience can make it better, but I don't know if I've ever seen a point guard with as poor decision making skills as Liggins has right now turn it around. I do think he will end up being good as a point forward type player at the 3.

kentubbybasketball
02-24-2009, 03:59 PM
I disagree completely. Liggins is always gonna have a craziness to his game... that'll always be there. He goes after the homerun play much too often, but I think as a sophomore and junior he'll learn to pick his spots better, which will keep UK out of some of the unenviable positions he's left us in.

To tell you the truth though, as a UK fan, I'm not sure Liggins has played enough consistently for anybody to really suggest whether he can or will improve. He's usually only played in spurts and not gotten a chance to get a rhythm, even against UT where he had a pretty decent game, he didn't get to play very long stints, because Porter was playing well. And, if Porter is playing well, where does that leave Liggins' minutes... Liggins won't spell at the 3, because Darius Miller does well at that. And, Galloway backs up Jodie at the on the rare occassions that Jodie sits, maybe a few seconds before a media TO.

VandyChuck
02-24-2009, 04:07 PM
Miller will be pretty good, I think. It's puzzling why he doesn't start over Harris.

Liggins is very erratic. Porter could hardly get the ball across midcourt against us, but he's still a better option at this point than Liggins. I've noticed Porter has stopped hesitating on those wide open three point attempts, which is good, because he needs to keep the defense honest.

kentubbybasketball
02-24-2009, 04:14 PM
Miller will be pretty good, I think. It's puzzling why he doesn't start over Harris.

Liggins is very erratic. Porter could hardly get the ball across midcourt against us, but he's still a better option at this point than Liggins. I've noticed Porter has stopped hesitating on those wide open three point attempts, which is good, because he needs to keep the defense honest.

It's pretty clear why Miller wasn't playing much early on, whether Harris was there or not.... Miller's defense had to improve. That's happened of late. Also, Miller went thru a stretch where he had no confidence on either side of the ball. He and his pops talked with Gillispie a while back, and ever since things have been on the up and up.

I like having Miller in the second unit though, because if Harris were to join that unit, we're really offensively-insufficient with that group. But, Harris gives us another guy that can defend well on the wing, to go with Meeks, which when it works the way we'd like, sets a proper tone from the outset of the game.

Miller had to come in and earn what he's got, and he's doing that now. But, I'd be foolish if I denied that Ramon Harris is one of Gillispie's pet, and he was under Tubby/Reggie Hanson and that former staff. Some players are just coachable and likable, Ramon fits the bill.

SkyAntoine
02-24-2009, 04:27 PM
I disagree completely. Liggins is always gonna have a craziness to his game... that'll always be there. He goes after the homerun play much too often, but I think as a sophomore and junior he'll learn to pick his spots better, which will keep UK out of some of the unenviable positions he's left us in.

To tell you the truth though, as a UK fan, I'm not sure Liggins has played enough consistently for anybody to really suggest whether he can or will improve. He's usually only played in spurts and not gotten a chance to get a rhythm, even against UT where he had a pretty decent game, he didn't get to play very long stints, because Porter was playing well. And, if Porter is playing well, where does that leave Liggins' minutes... Liggins won't spell at the 3, because Darius Miller does well at that. And, Galloway backs up Jodie at the on the rare occassions that Jodie sits, maybe a few seconds before a media TO.

I have no doubt that Liggins is talented and athletic, but I agree on the "craziness" to his game. He always seems to be pushing too much. In HS he may have gotten away with 10 assists and 5 TO's a game (or whatever he had), but unless he can mentally get in check it may be a long road for Liggins.

The importance of the Jasper transfer cannot be overstated. A veteraned team of 5 players may be able to survive with an average PG, but this UK team needs floor leadership. As much as I like Porter and think he fills his role well; his mistakes are usually talent-related and not necessarily mental. We need a real floor leader, quarterback type guy for this team and unfortunately we do not have it.

kentubbybasketball
02-24-2009, 04:34 PM
I agree he's always pushing too much, but doesn't fall under the list of correctable mistakes?

I have no doubt that a better PG would help this team. A guy like Beal would be what the doctor ordered for this team, and a guy that would benefit the most would be Perry Stevenson, a guy who's production is based on how good he's set up by teammates IMO. Jodie's numbers would be down, because we wouldn't rely on him in late clock situations as much. Pat's scoring would be up, because the PG would get him the ball.

Liggins has only played a season of college basketball, and not even really a full season. He's shown us what he can do when he's dialed in. But, right now, I would take Porter over him... look at the Indiana game, we were so much more calm, poised, and the ball was delivered where it needed to be better when Porter was running the show. I don't care what anybody says, I love Michael Porter, and realize he too isn't a natural 1 just like Liggins isn't... but it's where we have to play them.

VandyChuck
02-24-2009, 04:36 PM
I have no doubt that a better PG would help this team. A guy like Beal would be what the doctor ordered for this team,

.


To your credit, I have to give you props for recognizing Beal's importance. You may be the only non-Vandy fan to see it. I guess he needs to flash his game up a little.

kentubbybasketball
02-24-2009, 04:39 PM
Well, I've not always been a Beal fan, last year I thought he was third in the nation in A/To due to Foster and Ogilvy, but now he leads the SEC yet again. The guy is good, and he'd be a great guy to post around great individual talents like Patterson and Meeks, because he's not a guy that's gonna have to score 15 of his own each night. He's a good player... not the flashiest as you alluded to and maybe not the best PG, but he is the most solid.

BTW, since I said something nice you owe me some rep (joking). it might not happen again for a while.