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MSU124
02-19-2009, 04:17 PM
Itís been said, and I think itís well-founded, that the best two teams in the SEC reside in the Western Division: LSU and Mississippi State. Letís start with the records. LSU is 10-1 in league play, while MSU is 7-4. Four teams in the East have a 7-4 mark and are tied for first place: Florida, Kentucky, South Carolina and Tennessee. And check this out: MSU is 4-0 against Eastern Division teams, while LSU is 3-0. (Against the rest of the West, the East is a combined 14-5).

Now, consider recent results. MSU took LSU to double-overtime last Wednesday before succumbing, 97-94 (no doubt that played a factor in Stateís loss to surging Auburn three days later). On Saturday, Georgia beat Florida. On Tuesday, Vanderbilt beat Kentucky. Last night, MSU beat South Carolina and Ole Miss whipped Tennessee.

Whatís tough to figure out is if all this chaos in the East is good or bad for MSUís NCAA tournament hopes. On the one hand, the Bulldogs have a chance to finish the regular season with the second-best SEC record. On the other hand, these sudden struggles in the East are making the SEC look weaker by the day, and when that happens, the national consensus seems to favor teams like Florida and Kentucky by default.

http://djbulldogs.wordpress.com/2009/02/19/lsu-no-1-%E2%80%A6-msu-no-2/

kentubbybasketball
02-19-2009, 04:26 PM
Never count out the engine and viability of Florida and Kentucky as national players.

Personally, I think instead of comparing the divisions... MSU needs to worry about its own play. Clearly, you guys can beat some of the East's best teams, but how do you explain the other non-LSU losses? If the right MSU team shows up, MSU would have been a lock for the tourney.

Right now, these are the SEC's NCAAT teams in order: LSU, Florida, Tennessee, Kentucky, South Carolina... and UK and USC's bids are on life support. I think MSU needs a great SECT showing to really be confident of a bid.

statesboroblues
02-19-2009, 04:32 PM
It’s been said, and I think it’s well-founded, that the best two teams in the SEC reside in the Western Division: LSU and Mississippi State. Let’s start with the records. LSU is 10-1 in league play, while MSU is 7-4. Four teams in the East have a 7-4 mark and are tied for first place: Florida, Kentucky, South Carolina and Tennessee. And check this out: MSU is 4-0 against Eastern Division teams, while LSU is 3-0. (Against the rest of the West, the East is a combined 14-5).

Now, consider recent results. MSU took LSU to double-overtime last Wednesday before succumbing, 97-94 (no doubt that played a factor in State’s loss to surging Auburn three days later). On Saturday, Georgia beat Florida. On Tuesday, Vanderbilt beat Kentucky. Last night, MSU beat South Carolina and Ole Miss whipped Tennessee.

What’s tough to figure out is if all this chaos in the East is good or bad for MSU’s NCAA tournament hopes. On the one hand, the Bulldogs have a chance to finish the regular season with the second-best SEC record. On the other hand, these sudden struggles in the East are making the SEC look weaker by the day, and when that happens, the national consensus seems to favor teams like Florida and Kentucky by default.

http://djbulldogs.wordpress.com/2009/02/19/lsu-no-1-%E2%80%A6-msu-no-2/

Who said this?...LSU is "well founded" but State has not come close to seperating themselves from the rest of the SEC. How you believe State can stake claim to the #2 spot with beat downs by UM @ home and @ Auburn is beyond me. Have you actually watched State play? Sorry, but if you have than this thread is going nowhere...because you have no clue.

"Eat a Peach"

NCMISSSTFAN
02-19-2009, 05:07 PM
I don't know if we are the second best team in the SEC yet, we still have Tennesse and Florida to play. Even then, its hard to judge the SEC as a whole this year. IMO its:

1. LSU

in no particular order:

2. MSU
2. UK
2. UF
2. UT
2. USC

Teams like Auburn, Ole Miss and Vandy have the personnel to beat any of the above on any given night as well and could sneak up late. No disrespect to Bama, GA and Arkansas but they are probably too far out of the picture. They can beat you on any given night too though.

OffThePorch
02-19-2009, 05:13 PM
124... good points... but still some games left so we'll see.

MSU124
02-19-2009, 05:19 PM
I didn't write this, Brad Locke did, the link was posted. I just thought it was interesting to bring up and start a nice little debate.

OffThePorch
02-19-2009, 05:29 PM
I didn't write this, Brad Locke did, the link was posted. I just thought it was interesting to bring up and start a nice little debate.

that doesnt matter... you have no clue... now go eat a peach.. :lol:

BergeLSU
02-19-2009, 05:39 PM
What is missing in all of this is the perception that the East is leaps and bounds better than the West.

It hurts teams like MSU and LSU because they are doing "better against weaker competition".

MSUado
02-19-2009, 07:16 PM
What is missing in all of this is the perception that the East is leaps and bounds better than the West.

It hurts teams like MSU and LSU because they are doing "better against weaker competition".

I don't think that perception exists this year. At least it shouldn't, LSU and MSU are 7-0 v the east.

msudawg4life
02-19-2009, 07:17 PM
Actually MSU is NOT doing better vs the weaker competition...MSU is beating up on the East and getting beat in the West......quite the opposite.

Dawg
02-20-2009, 12:45 AM
Right...MSU seems to get up for the big games and drop the others.

The East has won 14 against the West, and the West has won 12. Not much of a disparity, and the top two teams in the West have owned the East thus far.

statesboroblues
02-20-2009, 08:38 AM
that doesnt matter... you have no clue... now go eat a peach.. :lol:

Didn't read the link, Sorry 124...thought that was your thoughts because of what was written in the link...I should say then Locke has no clue...In no reasonable way can he make a claim as of right now for State to be the clear #2, period. If you are the "clear" #2 in the SEC...you do not get beaten down by an undermanned UM team @ home or run off the court @ Auburn.

Now as for as eating a peach...I am sure you would love to be able to.

"Eat a Peach"

OffThePorch
02-20-2009, 08:48 AM
Didn't read the link, Sorry...thought that was your thoughts because of what was written in the link...I should say then Locke has no clue...In no reasonable way can he make a claim for State to be the clear #2, period. We just got run off the court @ Auburn. Sorry, but if you are the "clear" #2 in the SEC that does not happen. "Eat a Peach"

states... loosen your belt... If you look at the story it has ??? behind the title. i think it was meant to get people to think & talk. im sure Brad has a clue ... as do a lot of us that dont always agree with you. we do have the second best record right now & we have beaten a couple of the teams right there with us... so its not like Brad said we are NC contenders or something totally off the wall.
remember this... i might be wrong on some stuff... but by damn i always have a clue. :lol:

statesboroblues
02-20-2009, 09:53 AM
states... loosen your belt... If you look at the story it has ??? behind the title. i think it was meant to get people to think & talk. ...but by damn i always have a clue. :lol:

Which is what I was doing...was it not?

I apologized to 124...because I did not read the link.

That could be debatable...:sarcasm:

"Eat a Peach"

RailroadGin
02-20-2009, 09:57 AM
MSU can play like #2 team in the SEC and then turn around and look terrible. From what I've seen, it all depends on if the 3s are falling or not. When the State guards figure out how to attack the rim, they'll be considerable more consistent.

OffThePorch
02-20-2009, 11:58 AM
MSU can play like #2 team in the SEC and then turn around and look terrible. From what I've seen, it all depends on if the 3s are falling or not. When the State guards figure out how to attack the rim, they'll be considerable more consistent.

agreed.

MSUado
02-20-2009, 02:02 PM
Check out the conference stats for our starters.

Jarvis Varnado - 13.6 ppg
Ravern Johnson - 12.3 ppg
Barry Stewart - 12.3 ppg
Dee Bost - 13.5 ppg
Phil Turner - 11.0 ppg

I do like to see that.

All four guards are shooting better than 37% from 3. Barry Stewart is shooting 33% overall and I think we would be a more serious contender if he would work on his shot selection.

kentubbybasketball
02-20-2009, 02:55 PM
Actually MSU is NOT doing better vs the weaker competition...MSU is beating up on the East and getting beat in the West......quite the opposite.

Amen, brother. That's the point exactly.

The perception is that the East is better, and while the West does have the SEC's best team... it can't be argued that 4 of the next 5 are still in the East, and maybe 5 of 6 if you add Vandy... so what that tells me is that the West has 4 of the SEC's worst 6 teams... so I still say the perception that the East is better is a reality.

Thunder Gulch
02-20-2009, 04:03 PM
There is little to seperate 2-6, but of those, MSU is probably the least likely to make the tournament.

msudawg4life
02-20-2009, 04:10 PM
Amen, brother. That's the point exactly.

The perception is that the East is better, and while the West does have the SEC's best team... it can't be argued that 4 of the next 5 are still in the East, and maybe 5 of 6 if you add Vandy... so what that tells me is that the West has 4 of the SEC's worst 6 teams... so I still say the perception that the East is better is a reality.

after MSU and LSU you are right...the east is weak..but it's not like MSU is beating up on the west and getting beat in the east like previous years.....MSU is beating the better competition..which is what they will face in postseason tourneys....no matter how you paint it tub...MSU is beating up on your div so you can't really downsize msu and say lsu is the only good team out of the west.

the Aub loss was coming off a double OT loss vs the best team in the league..any team would have probs coming off a game like that.

kentubbybasketball
02-20-2009, 04:11 PM
4life, I never said LSU was the only good West team, but I am saying LSU is a different caliber altogether... MSU is in the same pact with the "4 east schools," yet some MSU fans are tying to link your team with LSU's, which isn't fair IMO.

msudawg4life
02-20-2009, 04:16 PM
4life, I never said LSU was the only good West team, but I am saying LSU is a different caliber altogether... MSU is in the same pact with the "4 east schools," yet some MSU fans are tying to link your team with LSU's, which isn't fair IMO.

oh no, I don't think we are with LSU...that is crazy...you did say LSU is the only decent team out of the West...I do remember that.


the West does have one decent (actually very good) team.

MSU can beat LSU....I think LSU has the the more experienced and total package team at this point though. I think MSU is anywhere from that 2-4th spot in the SEC depending on how they play...then again..any of those other 2-4 teams are the same way.... IT'S THE SEC BABY!!!!

RailroadGin
02-20-2009, 04:41 PM
Amen, brother. That's the point exactly.

The perception is that the East is better, and while the West does have the SEC's best team... it can't be argued that 4 of the next 5 are still in the East, and maybe 5 of 6 if you add Vandy... so what that tells me is that the West has 4 of the SEC's worst 6 teams... so I still say the perception that the East is better is a reality.

4 teams from the West are in the bottom 6 in the SEC? You can't go by record. The West teams have to play LSU twice, whereas you guys only once. If you take the top 4 teams from the West and the top 4 from the East. The west lead 7-5.

LSU (UT-W, USC-W)
MSU(USC-W, UK-W)
AUB(UT-W, USC-L, UK-L, UF-L)
OM(UT-W,USC-L, UK-W, UF-L)

Looks like the West is better KT.

Fatboy
02-20-2009, 04:44 PM
4 teams from the West are in the bottom 6 in the SEC? You can't go by record. The West teams have to play LSU twice, whereas you guys only once. If you take the top 4 teams from the West and the top 4 from the East. The west lead 7-5.

LSU (UT-W, USC-W)
MSU(USC-W, UK-W)
AUB(UT-W, USC-L, UK-L, UF-L)
OM(UT-W,USC-L, UK-W, UF-L)

Looks like the West is better KT.

Ding ding ding ding ding!

kentubbybasketball
02-20-2009, 05:03 PM
4 teams from the West are in the bottom 6 in the SEC? You can't go by record. The West teams have to play LSU twice, whereas you guys only once. If you take the top 4 teams from the West and the top 4 from the East. The west lead 7-5.

LSU (UT-W, USC-W)
MSU(USC-W, UK-W)
AUB(UT-W, USC-L, UK-L, UF-L)
OM(UT-W,USC-L, UK-W, UF-L)

Looks like the West is better KT.

Fair enough you gotta play LSU twice, but looking at the top 6 in the league, MSU has to play the other top 5, a total of 6 times... whereas the four teams from the East must play the other top 5 a total of 8 times. So, I'm not really seeing your case.

Furthermore, looking at the bottom six in the league, you've got UGA, Vandy, Ole Miss, Arkansas, Bama, and Auburn. MSU and LSU get 10 games against that easier batch, whereas the top 4 East teams only get 8 games against them.

So, once again, you're point is only true thru your lenses.

RailroadGin
02-20-2009, 05:06 PM
Fair enough you gotta play LSU twice, but looking at the top 6 in the league, MSU has to play the other top 5, a total of 6 times... whereas the four teams from the East must play the other top 5 a total of 8 times. So, I'm not really seeing your case.

Furthermore, looking at the bottom six in the league, you've got UGA, Vandy, Ole Miss, Arkansas, Bama, and Auburn. MSU and LSU get 10 games against that easier batch, whereas the top 4 East teams only get 8 games against them.

So, once again, you're point is only true thru your lenses.

Good point. You still didn't address the West/East top 4 records against the other.

kentubbybasketball
02-20-2009, 05:26 PM
Head to head records ultimately are maybe overrated... otherwise, why does Arizona State sweep Arizona last year, but Arizona makes it and ASU doesn't?

BergeLSU
02-21-2009, 04:04 PM
After all of this, Miss St. is hurting their argument being down by 3 to Alabama with 2 minutes left in overtime.

BergeLSU
02-21-2009, 04:09 PM
State ties it with a 3-pointer and both teams go the final minute without scoring.

To the 2nd overtime.

onlyfrbama
02-21-2009, 04:29 PM
Bama wins in the second OT 87-85, maybe there still is some life to the BBall program.

MSUado
02-21-2009, 05:05 PM
We were pretty much out of the dance anyway but this secures it barring an SECT win.

MSUado
02-21-2009, 05:06 PM
I'm still wondering what State's first half technical was about. Jarvis gets a slam dunk and we get a tech? Anybody know?

onlyfrbama
02-21-2009, 05:33 PM
I'm still wondering what State's first half technical was about. Jarvis gets a slam dunk and we get a tech? Anybody know?

Didn't see the game but did he hang on the rim? That is an automatic tech.

leland5
02-21-2009, 05:44 PM
Good Alabama win, both teams really played.

OffThePorch
02-21-2009, 05:59 PM
Congrats BAMA!
up & down... knew it coming into the season but still makes me a little crazy. looks like NIT... maybe.
baseball time,,,

MSUado
02-21-2009, 07:04 PM
Didn't see the game but did he hang on the rim? That is an automatic tech.

The tech was on the bench.

Thunder Gulch
02-21-2009, 08:44 PM
Yeah, that just about does it. I guess they have the same shot as everyone else in a wide open SEC tournament, but the at large hopes are toast.

UA37
02-22-2009, 11:02 AM
alright! does that make Bama #2 now?

NCMISSSTFAN
02-22-2009, 01:04 PM
Good win Bama, our only hopes are the SEC tourney now. We have overachieved a bit this season in some sorts and I'm proud of what have accomplished, we have a bright future with these guys. I'm not writing the season off yet but that loss pretty much cancelled our NCAA tourney bid.

XPS
02-22-2009, 01:46 PM
Good win Bama, our only hopes are the SEC tourney now. We have overachieved a bit this season in some sorts and I'm proud of what have accomplished, we have a bright future with these guys. I'm not writing the season off yet but that loss pretty much cancelled our NCAA tourney bid.

Stan has done an excellent job with this team, considering the loss of Gordon and Rhodes...

OffThePorch
02-22-2009, 05:41 PM
Stan has done an excellent job with this team, considering the loss of Gordon and Rhodes...

agreed. hope we finish strong. im hoping for an NIT invite this season. we only lose Brian Johnson if things go as planned... so next season should be very good.

statesboroblues
02-23-2009, 09:35 AM
“I wasn’t going to get the foul, so I didn’t go to the basket,” Stewart said. “They’re not going to determine the game. You’ve got to know that as a player.

So Stewart decides to do his infamous fade-away...Stans should put the ball in Bost's hands in a situation like this, period.
I just posted a day earlier that if I never see another one of his fade-aways it will be to soon...to end the game like that is joke. I have no clue as to why Stans will not real him in on his mid-range pull-ups...well actually I do.

"Eat a Peach"

RailroadGin
02-23-2009, 09:41 AM
I agree with his point about not getting a foul called. But he should have driven anyway, collapsed the defense and kicked out for a better shot than his fade away. I agree with statesboro- put the ball in Bost's hands and see what happens

OffThePorch
02-23-2009, 01:32 PM
any last shot id go big so i could crash the basket... id have Osby in with Jarvis.. & id tell Bost to drive to the hole & try to dunk it. Bowers used to dunk all the time & now our guards hardly ever dunk. no safer shot. usually no foul will be called either way.

im pleased overall with our season so far.. hope to finish strong. Bost is the real deal... Turner & V are much improved. need to get Ravern & Kodi in at the same time more often. imo.
go DOGS!

MSU124
02-23-2009, 03:30 PM
I've never seen our Guards dunk, besides Gordon last year.

If Stans doesn't get us to the tournament next year, I think he'll be on the hot seat, maybe even out. That would be 1 out of the past 4 years. And that one year, we were only a 9 seed. I'm sick of hearing the same excuse that we are young, every team is young now days.

kentubbybasketball
02-23-2009, 03:32 PM
Wow, that's looking ahead quite a bit if you ask me.

OffThePorch
02-23-2009, 05:46 PM
I've never seen our Guards dunk, besides Gordon last year. If Stans doesn't get us to the tournament next year, I think he'll be on the hot seat, maybe even out. That would be 1 out of the past 4 years. And that one year, we were only a 9 seed. I'm sick of hearing the same excuse that we are young, every team is young now days.

i have but not lately. as for Stansbury i think he's very safe for now.

MSUado
02-23-2009, 05:48 PM
I've never seen our Guards dunk, besides Gordon last year.

If Stans doesn't get us to the tournament next year, I think he'll be on the hot seat, maybe even out. That would be 1 out of the past 4 years. And that one year, we were only a 9 seed. I'm sick of hearing the same excuse that we are young, every team is young now days.

Phil Turner had a dunk in the South Carolina game and Ravern did too.

I don't think Rick is anywhere near that hot seat and there's no way I'd want him fired.

kentubbybasketball
02-23-2009, 05:52 PM
Seriously, can MSU really do much better than what they currently have? MSU could have an elite national program under Stansbury if you ask me. Why go out and get somebody else when you've got a winner.

Look at Florida... Billy D had some serious limitations early on (a perceived lack of discipline, very little defense if the press didn't stymie teams)... but he's worked thru that. Stansbury is learning and gaining some experience. A few years ago I would have said, in terms of defense and rebounding MSU is among the SEC's best teams and that's still the case now. I do however think offense was a problem at times, but that's vastly improved now, and I"m not sure if that's just this team or if something that'll carry over for next year's team and beyond.

Perhaps Stansbury's recruited isn't as glossy as it was a few years back, but as long as he's finishing in the top 2 in the West can you really complaining about whom he's winning with.

OffThePorch
02-23-2009, 05:55 PM
Phil Turner had a dunk in the South Carolina game and Ravern did too.
I don't think Rick is anywhere near that hot seat and there's no way I'd want him fired.

i meant in general & i dont think of Ravern as a guard.

i dont either.

MSUado
02-23-2009, 05:59 PM
i meant in general & i dont think of Ravern as a guard.

i dont either.

yeah i guess ravern is more of a small forward and phil is technically a power forward. Barry avoids contact at all costs it seems so you're not going to see him go in for the dunk. I loved having Jamont Gordon because he could get to the rim and throw it down at any time. His dunk in overtime of the Alabama SECT game was sick. To tell the truth I miss Charles Rhodes the most. More than 1/3rd of that guys shots were dunks and he just threw it down on everyone. Jarvis gets a lot of dunks but they lack showmanship.

MSUado
02-23-2009, 06:02 PM
Seriously, can MSU really do much better than what they currently have. MSU could have an elite national program under Stansbury if you ask me. Why go out and get somebody else when you've got a winner.

I must agree. We are not an elite program and Rick has done a very nice job getting decent talent and keeping us competitive most years. We have had a lot of early season struggles the last few years and that has hurt our tournament chances. Last years team was incredibly talented and had we taken care of business in the OOC schedule we would have been elite-8 bound in my opinion. It's unfortunate that we had to go through Memphis to get there.

NCMISSSTFAN
02-23-2009, 06:12 PM
Stan has done an excellent job with this team, considering the loss of Gordon and Rhodes...

Oh I agree completely, I'll be one of the first to get on him when I feel like complaining but he has done a good job with this young bunch. We should be a very good team next season, if not, something is wrong. We only lose Brian Johnson (hopefully) and bring in a 4 star recruit in Shanessy Smith

NCMISSSTFAN
02-23-2009, 06:14 PM
Seriously, can MSU really do much better than what they currently have? MSU could have an elite national program under Stansbury if you ask me. Why go out and get somebody else when you've got a winner.

Look at Florida... Billy D had some serious limitations early on (a perceived lack of discipline, very little defense if the press didn't stymie teams)... but he's worked thru that. Stansbury is learning and gaining some experience. A few years ago I would have said, in terms of defense and rebounding MSU is among the SEC's best teams and that's still the case now. I do however think offense was a problem at times, but that's vastly improved now, and I"m not sure if that's just this team or if something that'll carry over for next year's team and beyond.

Perhaps Stansbury's recruited isn't as glossy as it was a few years back, but as long as he's finishing in the top 2 in the West can you really complaining about whom he's winning with.

Very good post and I couldn't agree more, I've had my share of concerns and complaints over the years about him but he has and hopefully will continue to improve in other areas.