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ukfan339
01-14-2009, 10:52 PM
The LHL reports a new downtown arena study soon.




If a new basketball arena is built behind the Lexington Center, residents in the High Street area want it to be sensitive in design and scale to historic buildings that would surround it on three sides.


More than 100 people turned out to hear details about the arena that would replace the aging Rupp Arena. While it was a generally receptive audience, people wanted to know how the arena be integrated into the west end of downtown.


Would the height and design be compatible with Historic Woodward Heights on one side, Historic South Hill on the other and Historic Pleasant Green Baptist Church on the third?


Jerry Fawcett, chief architect with HKS Architects in Dallas, said the city and university had been firm early on that these issues would worry the community.


Design work has not started, Fawcett said, but the firm knows these are important considerations and will solicit input from neighbors if the project gets the go ahead from the city and the University of Kentucky.


Financing for the project would be from a private equity fund set up by investment bankers Goldman Sachs to invest in private arenas around the world.


No taxpayer money would be be used to build the 24,000 seat arena. And no money would be diverted from UK academics, said UK athletics director Mitch Barnhart.


A financial feasibility study is under way.

Rocky@theTop
01-15-2009, 01:13 AM
Sounds kind of risky given the economy.

ukfan339
01-15-2009, 01:17 AM
Well with the Capicity increasing then Ticket sales increase so the end result will be good, UK is doing this for the fact that UL is getting a new arena in 2010 and I must say the Loserville Arena looks amazing on the outside and inside, Rupp looks great on the inside but then outside its just a big steel box, also I heard the new arena in Loserville could seat up to 1,000 above capicity so 23,000 is right at UK's capacity. Also when the Yum center will be built for UL Rupp will still make more profit because not only is Rupp a arena but it's a whole Convention Center complete with shops and walkway connecting to a shopping mall, Freedom hall is a convention center but no where near the size of Rupp.

GatorMan32
01-15-2009, 01:51 AM
Getting rid of Rupp would be a mistake. You don't see this in college football. Teams don't trash historic stadiums. Not sure why UK would rush to tear down Rupp.

Extra Point
01-15-2009, 04:03 AM
Why doesn't UK take this opportunity to build an on-campus facility? I can't imagine having monster truck shows in Bud Walton one night and a basketball game there a day or two later. It just seems blasphemous given the basketball history in that building to share with a dirt track and exhaust fumes (or even a shopping mall attached). I think UK should do their own thing and keep all the money. The luxury suites and premium seating at a new on-campus UK only facility would be enough to finance the deal. And if Arkansas fans will pay $12,000 per seat per season for courtside at BWA, I know UK fans would do the same with a similar setup.

thethird
01-15-2009, 04:08 AM
I agree with EP - if your going to move from Rupp at least build a on campus arena.

ukfan339
01-15-2009, 07:02 AM
Who ever said there going to tear down Rupp? It could be used for other things. Heck they could renovate Rupp to be just as good as the new Yum Center.

GR8NESS
01-15-2009, 12:00 PM
Rupp may as well be on campus- it's like 3 blocks away.

I don't mind the arena not being on campus- it's the same distance from my (should be) future dorm as Commonwealth.

SkyAntoine
01-15-2009, 12:14 PM
Kentucky basketball is such a statewide way of life that it doesn't bother me it is not on campus. The crowd is made up primarily of people around the state that love the Cats. Only those students crazy enough to be in line at 6 am on Sunday lottery mornings (like I always was) get tickets to the games.

Rupp is part of the downtown in Lex and I can't imagine otherwise.

Unless we build a new arena that completely blows every other facility in the nation out of the water, then I'm content with Rupp.

socalwildcat
01-15-2009, 12:37 PM
Why doesn't UK take this opportunity to build an on-campus facility? I can't imagine having monster truck shows in Bud Walton one night and a basketball game there a day or two later. It just seems blasphemous given the basketball history in that building to share with a dirt track and exhaust fumes (or even a shopping mall attached). I think UK should do their own thing and keep all the money. The luxury suites and premium seating at a new on-campus UK only facility would be enough to finance the deal. And if Arkansas fans will pay $12,000 per seat per season for courtside at BWA, I know UK fans would do the same with a similar setup.

That's what I've been hearing...that a new arena would be built on campus...maybe near Commonwealth Stadium. Rumours all.

kentubbybasketball
01-15-2009, 12:38 PM
Getting rid of Rupp would be a mistake. You don't see this in college football. Teams don't trash historic stadiums. Not sure why UK would rush to tear down Rupp.

I'm there too. This economy isn't that great either (Barack Obama to the rescue starting Tuesday)... Illinois wanted to get a new arena or refurbish Assembly Hall, but the economy has put those plans on hold.

But, Gillispie made a smart statement on this issue (that would figure, it is Gillispie afterall), but he said, Rupp does have a lot of memories, but it's not like UK is gonna be set back, we're gonna make this arena even more special... we're not taking a step back by getting a new arena.

But, unless, we take a hint from Florida and do with our eRupption zone what they've done with their Rawdy Reptiles, putting them right on top of the court, we're never gonna have that kind of homecourt advantage even if we build 5 new arenas.

GatorMan32
01-15-2009, 02:48 PM
I don't think UK would be set back at all. I just hate to see them move out of such a special arena. Its bad enough that the Yankees are tearing down Yankee Stadium. I might not like the Yankees, but that place was a part of American sports history. So is Rupp. Places like that should stand and be used unless there is a real functionality issue. To my knowledge there is not.

As to the question of who said it would be ripped down, arenas do not occupy land to not be used. The new arena would need to host concerts and other events to make it a profitable venture. So what would Rupp host? Just does not work out. Its even less financially feasible because of the economy, which has its bright spots but is going to take years to pull back to even.... and much better spending decisions by individuals and government officials. But thats a Tank discussion for another day.

Appreciate the kind words, KT. Rupp, though, is worth a solid 10 points. That place is a college hoops cathedral. Respect it and treasure it. Don't be the Yankees of college hoopes.

kentubbybasketball
01-15-2009, 03:02 PM
GM32, that's part of the isssue, it's a cathedral atmosphere way too much. Sometimes, we need to get loud like Assembly Hall can get for IU, and the O Dome for UF.

BTW, I appreciate the compliments you made toward Rupp as well. The place is indeed sacred, and it would be sad to see us move out. The O Dome has by far the best college atmosphere though of the 12 arenas in our league (that's just fact), unless UK is playing UF or UNC.

GatorMan32
01-15-2009, 03:41 PM
Gotta give respect where it is due bro. UK has without a doubt earned it. I know we go back and forth but I respect the hell out of UK's tradition and Rupp.

LOL I was going to say, noise is not an issue when UF is there. That place rocks when I watch the Gators play there.

I think the noise level at Rupp might have more to do with the general population of the crowd than the arena. Its a statewide thing. You have people coming in from all over the state because they love UK hoops. But there is a downside to that too. Younger folks have that passion. When you get a little older, its more of a casual cheering. Just the way it goes for most people. Gainesville being a college town and the O Dome being relatively small means the people packing in are a younger, rowdier crowd usually. Just an observation. Don't think its a reason to get rid of Rupp at all.

msudawg4life
01-15-2009, 03:56 PM
shouldn't this thread be in the UK forum?

SkyAntoine
01-15-2009, 04:16 PM
shouldn't this thread be in the UK forum?

50% of the posters have been non-UK folk. It makes for good discussion especially when the board is semi-dead.

kentubbybasketball
01-15-2009, 05:12 PM
Gotta give respect where it is due bro. UK has without a doubt earned it. I know we go back and forth but I respect the hell out of UK's tradition and Rupp.

LOL I was going to say, noise is not an issue when UF is there. That place rocks when I watch the Gators play there.

I think the noise level at Rupp might have more to do with the general population of the crowd than the arena. Its a statewide thing. You have people coming in from all over the state because they love UK hoops. But there is a downside to that too. Younger folks have that passion. When you get a little older, its more of a casual cheering. Just the way it goes for most people. Gainesville being a college town and the O Dome being relatively small means the people packing in are a younger, rowdier crowd usually. Just an observation. Don't think its a reason to get rid of Rupp at all.


Oh, yeah, you're certainly right. It's those older people though that have earned the right to be at the games... you know. So, it's not like Mitch Barnhart could ever ask them to leave, and it should never be considered.

If we do build a new arena though maybe make it "Carrier Dome" size, so we could get more of my age group in there.

But, UF-UK is simply put the greatest rivalry for UK of this decade. It does get loud there... to this day, the loudest I can remember Rupp is the 2003 game. UF is a different story, even for the older, casual cheerers.

kentubbybasketball
01-15-2009, 05:13 PM
shouldn't this thread be in the UK forum?

This is the SEC basketball forum.

Didnt' you know UK basketball = SEC basketball.:raz::rotf:

GatorMan32
01-15-2009, 05:41 PM
I did not mean to imply the older crowd should be banned LOL Just saying they are the group that can more afford to travel in for so many hoops games,etc, to fill such a big arena. IMO a bigger arena just means more of the older crowd.

SkyAntoine
01-15-2009, 05:49 PM
I did not mean to imply the older crowd should be banned LOL Just saying they are the group that can more afford to travel in for so many hoops games,etc, to fill such a big arena. IMO a bigger arena just means more of the older crowd.

IMO a Kentucky arena could be filled at almost any size if tickets are made available. Unless you know someone (like Weege :)) it's really difficult to get decent tickets especially conference games.

Part of getting a new arena would mean selling season tix with a "small donation" to the University. I don't see that changing and I don't see UK contributors giving up the best seats in the house to college kids. The old people are spoiled at Rupp. Which leads me back to saying it's more about the non-student fans than the students.

GR8NESS
01-15-2009, 06:25 PM
That's what I've been hearing...that a new arena would be built on campus...maybe near Commonwealth Stadium. Rumours all.

Nope. It'll be built downtown. Period.

jh4uk
01-15-2009, 06:27 PM
Why doesn't UK take this opportunity to build an on-campus facility? I can't imagine having monster truck shows in Bud Walton one night and a basketball game there a day or two later. It just seems blasphemous given the basketball history in that building to share with a dirt track and exhaust fumes (or even a shopping mall attached). I think UK should do their own thing and keep all the money. The luxury suites and premium seating at a new on-campus UK only facility would be enough to finance the deal. And if Arkansas fans will pay $12,000 per seat per season for courtside at BWA, I know UK fans would do the same with a similar setup.

it's funny you say that about the monster truck shows, there is one coming to rupp very soon. i also agree with you on the blasphemous thing... it makes me sick. but rupp does host a lot of events. besides concerts it's also the home of the kentucky horsemen (formally the lexington horsemen) arena 2 football team. and even this sunday rupp is hosting a wwe house show which im going to.
but i don't think that if they built an on campus arena, they would tear down rupp. the history of it for one and two, downtown lexington is boring. without rupp and all it brings to central kentucky, i would never go downtown.

Extra Point
01-16-2009, 01:30 AM
I'm there too. This economy isn't that great either (Barack Obama to the rescue starting Tuesday)... Illinois wanted to get a new arena or refurbish Assembly Hall, but the economy has put those plans on hold.

But, Gillispie made a smart statement on this issue (that would figure, it is Gillispie afterall), but he said, Rupp does have a lot of memories, but it's not like UK is gonna be set back, we're gonna make this arena even more special... we're not taking a step back by getting a new arena.

But, unless, we take a hint from Florida and do with our eRupption zone what they've done with their Rawdy Reptiles, putting them right on top of the court, we're never gonna have that kind of homecourt advantage even if we build 5 new arenas.

First of all, Barack can't "fix" the economy...no POTUS can control the markets or the global economy. It will take his entire first term just to get through the economic cycle we are in right now given it's only about half way through at this point.

I agree about moving and it not setting you back. Look at Arkansas moving from Barnhill to BWA. It only got better. I just think a UK controlled on-campus facility makes more sense IF you are going to start from scratch.

Extra Point
01-16-2009, 01:36 AM
I don't think UK would be set back at all. I just hate to see them move out of such a special arena. Its bad enough that the Yankees are tearing down Yankee Stadium. I might not like the Yankees, but that place was a part of American sports history. So is Rupp. Places like that should stand and be used unless there is a real functionality issue. To my knowledge there is not.

As to the question of who said it would be ripped down, arenas do not occupy land to not be used. The new arena would need to host concerts and other events to make it a profitable venture. So what would Rupp host? Just does not work out. Its even less financially feasible because of the economy, which has its bright spots but is going to take years to pull back to even.... and much better spending decisions by individuals and government officials. But thats a Tank discussion for another day.

Appreciate the kind words, KT. Rupp, though, is worth a solid 10 points. That place is a college hoops cathedral. Respect it and treasure it. Don't be the Yankees of college hoopes.

I disagree GM. The only events held at Bud Walton Arena are men's and women's hoops and the Wal-Mart annual stockholder's meeting in June. If Arkansas can make it be a basketball only facility, UK can do the same.

The "economy" of college basketball at UK is unaffected by the global economy. In fact, getting more favorable construction costs in this current economy would be a real plus right now.

ukfan339
01-16-2009, 01:38 AM
I don't even think the Campus has enough room for a new High tech arena, besides Rupp is like right there on the Border Line of the campus.....Also has any heard that Rupps roof is not strong enough to hold one of those Jiant Scoreboard/Video screen on top center court?

Extra Point
01-16-2009, 01:43 AM
it's funny you say that about the monster truck shows, there is one coming to rupp very soon. i also agree with you on the blasphemous thing... it makes me sick. but rupp does host a lot of events. besides concerts it's also the home of the kentucky horsemen (formally the lexington horsemen) arena 2 football team. and even this sunday rupp is hosting a wwe house show which im going to.
but i don't think that if they built an on campus arena, they would tear down rupp. the history of it for one and two, downtown lexington is boring. without rupp and all it brings to central kentucky, i would never go downtown.

NO, don't tear it down. Barnhill still stands...it has been reconfigured (i.e. dropped to 9k seats) and hosts the women's gymnastics and volleyball teams.

GatorMan32
01-16-2009, 01:54 AM
I disagree GM. The only events held at Bud Walton Arena are men's and women's hoops and the Wal-Mart annual stockholder's meeting in June. If Arkansas can make it be a basketball only facility, UK can do the same.

The "economy" of college basketball at UK is unaffected by the global economy. In fact, getting more favorable construction costs in this current economy would be a real plus right now.

BWA is a campus arean correct? Thus, I am guessing privately funded by the university? College facilities are like that. I am just a bit confused about the dynamics, as I have never researched it, in play. Would it be privately funded by UK but off campus? Most off campus facilities I have ever been accustomed to, the Citrus Bowl, the Orange Bowl, the Rose Bowl, etc are stadiums college teams used but were not owned or run by the school. It was used on lease by the school. In that scenario there is likely public funding involved. In that scenario, again, events are hosted to make the move a financially sound one for the tax payers.

By the way, no college program is recession proof. If the major donors feel the pinch, so will a program. Right now that has not seemed to be the case for elite programs. However, until we are out of the woods, it'd be a bad situation to break ground and then have money become an issue. This is not a mere facility upgrade. Its a multi-hundred million dollar project.

Extra Point
01-16-2009, 02:28 AM
BWA is a campus arean correct? Thus, I am guessing privately funded by the university? College facilities are like that. I am just a bit confused about the dynamics, as I have never researched it, in play. Would it be privately funded by UK but off campus? Most off campus facilities I have ever been accustomed to, the Citrus Bowl, the Orange Bowl, the Rose Bowl, etc are stadiums college teams used but were not owned or run by the school. It was used on lease by the school. In that scenario there is likely public funding involved. In that scenario, again, events are hosted to make the move a financially sound one for the tax payers.

By the way, no college program is recession proof. If the major donors feel the pinch, so will a program. Right now that has not seemed to be the case for elite programs. However, until we are out of the woods, it'd be a bad situation to break ground and then have money become an issue. This is not a mere facility upgrade. Its a multi-hundred million dollar project.

Yes, Bud Walton Arena is an on-campus basketball-only facility. It was built with private funds (half from Bud Walton, hence the naming). Issuing municipal bonds to help finance part of the capital cost would be available with the new revenue streams created paying off the bonds. If a new Rupp were built, it would include suite and club seating which would be snapped up in a heartbeat at UK providing incremental annual revenue to easily pay off the bonds issued. The guarantor of the bonds would be the University and fund raising arm of the University, not the taxpayers.

When we did a $110MM renovation/expansion of our football stadium in 2000/2001, about half the cost was financed through bonds. However, with the premium seating revenue and other new revenue streams created by the expansion, the bonds could have been paid off in 3 1/2 years.

This is not a multi-hundred million dollar project. UK would already own the land if built on campus. Auburn's new arena which is awesome is projected at $95MM. If Arkansas had to rebuild Bud Walton Arena, it would probably be $100MM. Mizzou's new arena (3 years old now?) was $75MM and its sweet.

Recessions rarely impact the lifestyle of large donors. Arkansas put in new courtside seating this year which is $12,000 per year per seat with a 5 year commitment. So you had to write a $60k check for one seat. There was immediately a long waiting list. That's in addition to the big waiting list for the luxury suites (47? 49? suites) in BWA.

GatorMan32
01-16-2009, 11:28 AM
Recessions don't. Confidence scams do. And a big one hurt a lot of donors.

Like I said, though, thats why I wanted to get a feel for the dynamics of off campus facility for UK v some football venues which are likewise off campus and not school owned or run. It changes a lot. Then we are in agreement. It could be basketball only.]

Even still, it'd be a huge mistake to leave Rupp, which without UK hoops, I still don't see remaining.

kentubbybasketball
01-16-2009, 12:34 PM
First of all, Barack can't "fix" the economy...no POTUS can control the markets or the global economy. It will take his entire first term just to get through the economic cycle we are in right now given it's only about half way through at this point.

I agree about moving and it not setting you back. Look at Arkansas moving from Barnhill to BWA. It only got better. I just think a UK controlled on-campus facility makes more sense IF you are going to start from scratch.

You quoted the word fix, but I never said he would fix the economy. He will give it a shot in the arm though.

Extra Point
01-16-2009, 08:40 PM
Recessions don't. Confidence scams do. And a big one hurt a lot of donors.

Like I said, though, thats why I wanted to get a feel for the dynamics of off campus facility for UK v some football venues which are likewise off campus and not school owned or run. It changes a lot. Then we are in agreement. It could be basketball only.]

Even still, it'd be a huge mistake to leave Rupp, which without UK hoops, I still don't see remaining.

There are "donors" who give money used to fund annual operating budgets and then there are "big donors" who provide large sums of capital to build facilities. I was referring to the big donors.

Big donors lost money, but not enough to preclude them from giving large financial gifts to build a new basketball arena at UK which is the holiest place in the entire state.

As for "confidence scam", read up on the Community Reinvestment Act which Congress and the Clinton Administration used in 1994 to loosen up lending requirements at Fannie May and Freddie Mac and the role that played in the crashing of our economy. We can't claim "scam" when we elected the bastardos in the first place.

Extra Point
01-16-2009, 08:45 PM
You quoted the word fix, but I never said he would fix the economy. He will give it a shot in the arm though.

Shot in the arm = printing more money and increasing government spending IN ADDITION to the bailouts making it harder to fix the long-term economy.

Change, may a$$.

kentubbybasketball
01-20-2009, 02:57 PM
We'll just have to see how it turns out. I'm not sure completely what President Obama's plan is or how he entirely plans on getting it accomplished. I do know he's President now though, and I'm very happy.