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Elvis
03-28-2008, 01:10 PM
The same reason I do not like Bush as POTUS is the same reason I probably would not like Obama as POTUS.

Think about it. (http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/0328/p09s01-coop.html)



Cambridge, Mass. - President Bush has cast himself as a transformational leader. He disdains what he calls "small ball." Many people assume that leaders with transformational objectives and an inspirational style are better or more ethical than leaders with more modest objectives and a transactional style.

Transformational leaders provide an inspiring vision of goals that can help overcome self-interest and narrow factionalism in organizations and nations. They summon new and broader energies among followers. Groups and nations that are rent by cleavages and factions can benefit from a Gandhi or Mandela who raise people's sights to a common cause.

In contrast, transactional leaders lead by using a normal range of rewards and punishments rather than inspiration.

Common causes, however, are not always more moral than individual interests. If a government official chooses to go to his daughter's softball game on a Saturday afternoon rather than serve the public interest by working in the office, which is the higher need? When the transformational leader Mao Zedong rallied the Chinese people around collective interests in the Great Leap Forward of the 1950s and the Cultural Revolution of the 1960s, the result was millions of unnecessary deaths.

More than two centuries ago, the newly independent American colonists had a transformational leader in George Washington. Nonetheless, they invented a very different type of institutional leadership when James Madison and other transactional leaders negotiated the Constitution and later explained it in the Federalist Papers.

Madison's famous solution to the problem of cleavage and faction was not to convert everyone to a common cause, but to overcome divisions by creating an institutional framework in which ambition countered ambition and faction countered faction. Separation of powers, checks and balances, and a decentralized federal system placed the emphasis on laws more than leaders. Even when a group cannot agree on its ultimate goals, its members may be able to agree on means that create diversity and pluralism without destroying the group. In such circumstances, transactional leadership may be better than efforts at transformational leadership.

One of the key tasks for leaders is the creation, maintenance, or change of institutions. Madisonian government was not designed for efficiency. Law is often called "the wise restraints that make men free," but sometimes laws must be changed or broken, as the civil-rights movement of the 1960s demonstrated. On an everyday level, whistle-blowers can play a disruptive but useful role in large bureaucracies, and a smart leader will find ways to protect them or channel their information into institutions such as through ombudspersons. An inspirational leader who ignores institutions or breaks them must carefully consider the long-term ethical consequences as well as the immediate gains for the group.

Good leaders design and maintain systems and institutions. Well-designed institutions include means for self correction as well as ways of constraining the failures of leaders. As the top legal officer of GE put it, a leader needs to create an institutional framework where "the company's norms and values are so widely shared and its reputation for integrity is so strong that most leaders and employees want to win the right way."

Poorly designed or poorly led institutions can also lead people astray. Obedience to institutional authority can be bad at times. Several decades ago, the Milgram experiment at Yale showed how easily ordinary people could be encouraged to administer (simulated) brutal electrical shocks to another person when told to do so by an authority figure. Likewise, the infamous Stanford University prison experiment of 1971 showed how morally toxic conditions set by a leader can induce regular people to commit abusive, even sadistic behavior.

The recent case of the Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq reminds us of this danger in real life. The Abu Ghraib guards were reservists without special training who lacked supervision and were given the task of softening up detainees. It is not surprising that the result was various forms of torture. The moral flaws were not simply in the prison guards, but also in the higher level guardians such as then Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, who failed to monitor adequately a flawed institutional framework.

Voters need to remember that transformation is not enough. Good leadership is not merely inspiring people with a transformational vision, important though that can be, but also involves a capacity for creating and maintaining the systems and institutions that allow both effective and moral implementation.

Dawg in Dallas
03-28-2008, 01:32 PM
IMO, the biggest (and simple) argument against Obama is one party government. Not healthy.

Elvis
03-28-2008, 01:45 PM
IMO, the biggest (and simple) argument against Obama is one party government. Not healthy.

Well. I am not saying this is the biggest argument against Obama. Just the best.

Whether or not you like his politics, I would rather have a President who likes to have sex with fat jewish girls, but gets the job done. Instead of an idealogue who has no desire to forge agreements.

pigs in Zen
03-28-2008, 01:51 PM
IMO, the biggest (and simple) argument against Obama is one party government. Not healthy.

Did I miss something? What do you mean? How does Obama = one party govt?

Are the Repubs going to disappear or something if Obama is elected? Or do you mean Dem control of all 3 legs of Federal govt?

USC90
03-28-2008, 02:02 PM
Instead of an idealogue who has no desire to forge agreements.

What are you referring to?

Herchel
03-28-2008, 02:59 PM
What are you referring to?

I think he is referring to the positions and voting record of your favorite candidate.

USC90
03-28-2008, 03:01 PM
I think he is referring to the positions and voting record of your favorite candidate.

Really? I thought that he might be referring to Obama.

Herchel
03-28-2008, 03:06 PM
Really? I thought that he might be referring to Obama.

:rotf::rotf::rotf:

Elvis
03-28-2008, 03:06 PM
What are you referring to?

Compare http://www.ontheissues.org/Barack_Obama.htm to Bush (http://www.ontheissues.org/George_W__Bush.htm)

Seem mirror-imageish to me

Elvis
03-28-2008, 03:07 PM
What are you referring to?

Compare Obama (http://www.ontheissues.org/Barack_Obama.htm) to Bush (http://www.ontheissues.org/George_W__Bush.htm)

Seem mirror-imageish to me

USC90
03-28-2008, 03:10 PM
Compare Obama (http://www.ontheissues.org/Barack_Obama.htm) to Bush (http://www.ontheissues.org/George_W__Bush.htm)

Seem mirror-imageish to me

http://www.hjo3.net/orly/gal1/orly_spock.jpg

SkyAntoine
03-28-2008, 04:35 PM
Compare Obama (http://www.ontheissues.org/Barack_Obama.htm) to Bush (http://www.ontheissues.org/George_W__Bush.htm)

Seem mirror-imageish to me

Thanks for the links, Elvis.

I took the on-line poll at the site...Who is this Michael Peroutka guy? Can he run for POTUS?

Elvis
03-28-2008, 04:44 PM
Thanks for the links, Elvis.

I took the on-line poll at the site...Who is this Michael Peroutka guy? Can he run for POTUS?

I always get Michael Badnarik when I take that poll :D

Michael Peroutka used to be the head of the Constitution party. I thought he ran for POTUS in 2004. There was a split between him and the Constitution party sometime in '06. Don't know what he is doing at the moment.

Really Big Bama Fan
04-12-2008, 09:29 PM
I my opinion, the real argument against O'Bama is the risk of the unknown. His unconventional background may have produced a great leader, but it could also have instilled (http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/world/2008-04/11/content_6608799.htm) a distrust in him of our institutions. Do we want to find out his true feelings after he is the President?

Indonesia has the world's largest Muslim population, but Obama's household was not religious. "My mother, whose parents were nonpracticing Baptists and Methodists, was one of the most spiritual souls I ever knew," Obama said in a 2007 speech. "But she had a healthy skepticism of religion as an institution. And as a consequence, so did I."

In her own way, Ann tried to compensate for the absence of black people in her son's life. At night, she came home from work with books on the civil rights movement and recordings of Mahalia Jackson. Her aspirations for racial harmony were simplistic. "She was very much of the early Dr. [Martin Luther] King era," Obama says. "She believed that people were all basically the same under their skin, that bigotry of any sort was wrong and that the goal was then to treat everybody as unique individuals." Ann gave her daughter, who was born in 1970, dolls of every hue: "A pretty black girl with braids, an Inuit, Sacagawea, a little Dutch boy with clogs," says Soetoro-Ng, laughing. "It was like the United Nations."