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GoDores
02-15-2016, 05:58 PM
Six games to play and there are 7 teams within 2 games of first place:


9-3: Kentucky, LSU
8-4: SC
7-5:: A&M, Vandy, Florida, and UGA.

I think 13-5 would win the conference. The battle for the top 4 seeds is going to be interesting too. In my opinion, SC and A&M have the easier schedules down the stretch. Florida has the toughest. All three of those teams have been trending down recently.

I see UGA falling out and I see Florida dropping given their tough schedule. That leaves UK, LSU, SC, A&M, and Vandy for the top 4 spots. UK and LSU should feel pretty good about locking 2 of them up given the 2 game lead. So I got SC, A&M, and Vandy for the final 2 spots. That race.....is too close to call.

Bama_Man
02-15-2016, 06:09 PM
OT, but how many teams you think we get in the tourney?

UK is in, TAMU in, UF likely in barring collapse, SC in, LSU likely in but their RPI is terrible. Do Bama/Vandy get in? Bama's RPI is top 40 now after the UF win, if the season closes out and Bama only loses at LSU/UK, and beats Vandy, UGA, Arkansas, and Mississippi State, that would give Bama six top 50 RPI wins and a positive conference record. The Vandy/Bama game could put one team and keep the loser out.

But on topic, I believe its pretty solid that UK and LSU finish 1-2, with TAMU and SC being 3-4.

Djshockley3
02-16-2016, 04:30 AM
Would not be shocked if UGA finished like 9th.

Herchel
02-16-2016, 07:08 AM
Would not be shocked if UGA finished like 9th.
I think they have a decent shot at 11-7.

Dawgilicious
02-16-2016, 10:41 AM
OT, but how many teams you think we get in the tourney?

UK is in, TAMU in, UF likely in barring collapse, SC in, LSU likely in but their RPI is terrible. Do Bama/Vandy get in? Bama's RPI is top 40 now after the UF win, if the season closes out and Bama only loses at LSU/UK, and beats Vandy, UGA, Arkansas, and Mississippi State, that would give Bama six top 50 RPI wins and a positive conference record. The Vandy/Bama game could put one team and keep the loser out.

But on topic, I believe its pretty solid that UK and LSU finish 1-2, with TAMU and SC being 3-4.

Bama def has a shot, but not only do they have to continue to win, it would help to have the some of the other bubble teams drop a game or have a bad loss to help them out.

dnmuga93
02-16-2016, 11:30 AM
That Georgia-Alabama game on the last day of the season looms large for both schools...

Dawg4life
02-16-2016, 11:41 AM
Kentucky or LSU is likely winning the regular season championship.


I'd say 10-8 for Georgia, maybe 11-7. This is a team that's terrible on the road but I really wouldn't be too surprised if they took the rest of their home games. Today is the most likely loss but if they get today I think they're getting the rest of their home games and dropping both road games.

GoDores
02-16-2016, 02:15 PM
OT, but how many teams you think we get in the tourney?

UK is in, TAMU in, UF likely in barring collapse, SC in, LSU likely in but their RPI is terrible. Do Bama/Vandy get in? Bama's RPI is top 40 now after the UF win, if the season closes out and Bama only loses at LSU/UK, and beats Vandy, UGA, Arkansas, and Mississippi State, that would give Bama six top 50 RPI wins and a positive conference record. The Vandy/Bama game could put one team and keep the loser out.

But on topic, I believe its pretty solid that UK and LSU finish 1-2, with TAMU and SC being 3-4.

I consider a lock to mean if you lose every remaining game you have, you'd still make the tourney. I think we're a little too early to give out locks right now, but UK is in the best shape. After them, no team can really afford to slide down the stretch. A&M is the next closest, but they need a win badly to stop their skid. SC doesn't have room for error given the weak schedule. If you forecast based on past results, you'd think UK, SC, and A&M do enough to make the field.

Then there's LSU, Florida, Vandy, and Bama. Florida has a really difficult schedule and I think they drop too many of them. Bama is on the outside looking in right now, but could sneak in with a lot of wins down the stretch. LSU has the worst numbers of that group, but has the marquee player. Vandy is right on the cut line right now. They'll play their way in or out based on results. They have the RPI and SOS, just needs the wins. I think 2 of those 4 get in, so I've got the SEC with 5 teams.

I'm gonna say UK, A&M, SC, LSU, and Vandy get in.

And Vandy/Bama only play once this year. Vandy already won at home.

dnmuga93
02-16-2016, 02:26 PM
Kentucky or LSU is likely winning the regular season championship.


I'd say 10-8 for Georgia, maybe 11-7. This is a team that's terrible on the road but I really wouldn't be too surprised if they took the rest of their home games. Today is the most likely loss but if they get today I think they're getting the rest of their home games and dropping both road games.

Disagree. Auburn is a dumpster fire without Canty and I think we beat them down there.

Bama_Man
02-16-2016, 03:08 PM
I consider a lock to mean if you lose every remaining game you have, you'd still make the tourney. I think we're a little too early to give out locks right now, but UK is in the best shape. After them, no team can really afford to slide down the stretch. A&M is the next closest, but they need a win badly to stop their skid. SC doesn't have room for error given the weak schedule. If you forecast based on past results, you'd think UK, SC, and A&M do enough to make the field.

Then there's LSU, Florida, Vandy, and Bama. Florida has a really difficult schedule and I think they drop too many of them. Bama is on the outside looking in right now, but could sneak in with a lot of wins down the stretch. LSU has the worst numbers of that group, but has the marquee player. Vandy is right on the cut line right now. They'll play their way in or out based on results. They have the RPI and SOS, just needs the wins. I think 2 of those 4 get in, so I've got the SEC with 5 teams.

I'm gonna say UK, A&M, SC, LSU, and Vandy get in.

And Vandy/Bama only play once this year. Vandy already won at home.

I meant Georgia, who Alabama finishes with. I know LSU has Simmons and beat UK, but if Bama splits wit them, Alabama will have more quality wins and a higher RPI. I'm not sure how you can say Vandy is in when Alabama has a higher RPI and more quality wins. Vandy doesn't have the ugly Auburn loss, but Bama has more quality wins and a higher RPI. ESPN has Bamas RPI at 34, two spots behind UF and 5th in the conference. If Bama splits the UK/LSU games and beats the remaining schedule, I don't see how anyone could keep them out. That would give us six wins over teams people have in the tourney, and the only bad loss is Auburn. Ole Miss isn't a great loss but not like Auburn. But the rest of the losses are to teams like Dayton (12 RPI), Oregon (4), UK (13), USC (26), LSU (70), and Vandy (54).

Heres Bamas wins:
Notre Dame (19)
South Carolina (26)
A&M (24)
UF (32)
Wichita State (54)---was top 50 until last couple days
Non Conference SOS of 19, Non conference RPI of 39. 8-9 against RPI top 150, 7-0 vs sub RPI top 150.

And a win over top 100 Clemson. 15-9 overall, 6-6 in SEC. Some say 9-9 would get Bama in, but I believe 10-8 in conference gets Bama in for sure. Vandys RPI is 54, for reference.

Dawgilicious
02-16-2016, 03:30 PM
Of course if Bama wins out it will be solved. Any loss will leave the door open for exclusion and what happens with other bubble teams that are fighting for spots. There are prob 16-24 teams in that bubble window from Syracuse to Wisconsin to TT to Clemson to Vandy to Bama,etc.......

March madness!

Bama_Man
02-16-2016, 04:17 PM
Of course if Bama wins out it will be solved. Any loss will leave the door open for exclusion and what happens with other bubble teams that are fighting for spots. There are prob 16-24 teams in that bubble window from Syracuse to Wisconsin to TT to Clemson to Vandy to Bama,etc.......

March madness!

Clemson's RPI is in the 80s, no way they pass Bama if both have comparable resumes BC Bama has the head to head win.

Bama doesn't have to win out IMO, just split with UK/LSU, both road games, and beat everyone else and they're in IMO.

Wisconsin scares me tho, if they make a good run to end season, after the HUGE win at Maryland, they are in and would put a team like Bama out. ESPN/CBSSports have Bama in at the moment but still lot of basketball left.

darthvaderbilt
02-16-2016, 04:27 PM
Vandy and Bama don't play again. Vandy already beat them.

Dawgilicious
02-16-2016, 04:35 PM
ESPn doesn't have Bama in unless Lunardi released another bracket already. I didn't say they needed to win out, but winning out would eliminate any high levels of doubt. In a perfect world, it would only matter what Bama does on the court, but unfortunately their are other teams out there. Clemson is going to have to do some magic to get in, esp with common teams. If it came down to Bama and Clemson for a spot, Bama would look good.

Why?

1. Bama beat Clemson
2. Common Opponents: Bama beat USC, Clemson did not, Bama Might beat UGA, Clemson did not

Wisconsin would almost have to get in. They still get Michigan at home and have a huge road win over a top 5 team. Of course, they could always have a bad loss before the season is over

Dawg4life
02-16-2016, 05:34 PM
Disagree. Auburn is a dumpster fire without Canty and I think we beat them down there.

Forgot they played Auburn again when I posted that. :facepalm:

Still, 10-8 is the most likely record Georgia has in SEC play. Maybe 11-7, but would require snagging another iffy game.

kentubbybasketball
02-16-2016, 06:44 PM
At this point, if the SECT started today, we'd be the 2 seed and honesty, the teams on that half of the draw are better matchups for us like UGA and Bama. SO, quite frankly, if thing go how they are now I wouldn't mind tying LSU or whoever for the SEC title but losin the tiebreaker. TAMU, LSU, and Vandy would all be on the same side.

But honestly at this point, and who would have thought this, not only is UK and LSU fighting it out for the title, whichever team wins likely has the player (Ulis or Simmons) that win POY. Pearl and Howland both said it yesterday, and Simmons isn't the lock he once was. Ulis is every bit the All-American. (Crazy that last year WCS didn't win SEC POY given his team was champs btw). The season finale of LSU @ UK is huge and the SEC did great predicting this needed to be the season finale. It's been a while since the potentially two best teams were in a game the last day of the season to determine a champ. Either way, I am confident in each game we will enter with the best overall talent and the best player and coach; the only question is obviously LSU and Simmons.

Dameyon Fishback says UK is going 14-4 in the SEC and is making the final four btw. This would be our first back to back SEC titles under Cal... which is crazy.

kentubbybasketball
02-16-2016, 06:46 PM
ESPn doesn't have Bama in unless Lunardi released another bracket already. I didn't say they needed to win out, but winning out would eliminate any high levels of doubt. In a perfect world, it would only matter what Bama does on the court, but unfortunately their are other teams out there. Clemson is going to have to do some magic to get in, esp with common teams. If it came down to Bama and Clemson for a spot, Bama would look good.

Why?

1. Bama beat Clemson
2. Common Opponents: Bama beat USC, Clemson did not, Bama Might beat UGA, Clemson did not

Wisconsin would almost have to get in. They still get Michigan at home and have a huge road win over a top 5 team. Of course, they could always have a bad loss before the season is over

I'm not seeing why Bama should be in. That Wichita State win isn't what the name suggests. I'd take Texas Tech personally.

Dawgilicious
02-16-2016, 07:45 PM
I'm not seeing why Bama should be in. That Wichita State win isn't what the name suggests. I'd take Texas Tech personally.

I can def see the argument.....TT has some great wins

kentubbybasketball
02-16-2016, 08:15 PM
And, let's face it, ninth place in the SEC is nowhere near getting in.

Dawgilicious
02-16-2016, 08:21 PM
oh for sure....There is no doubt about that

Dawgilicious
02-16-2016, 09:06 PM
SC did not help themselves with a loss to Missouri

GR8NESS
02-16-2016, 09:21 PM
yeah, that one finishes off USC

msudawg4life
02-16-2016, 11:46 PM
Weatherspoons 3 might of not just won the game tonight vs Vandy....it may of been a dagger Vandy will have a tough time recovering from....their road already tough... gets very tough now...

GoDores
02-17-2016, 01:40 AM
Yea. Vandy once again proved they are the best first half team in the nation. But I've literally lost count of how many double digit second half leads they've blown. If we had any room for error to still make the tournament, we just used it all up.

And I think I've been selling bama a little short. They've got a pretty good shot to make the tourney. I think Grant has something going.

Djshockley3
02-17-2016, 04:32 AM
I am done with Mark Fox. Time for him to go.

kentubbybasketball
02-17-2016, 06:37 AM
Weatherspoons 3 might of not just won the game tonight vs Vandy....it may of been a dagger Vandy will have a tough time recovering from....their road already tough... gets very tough now...

If I were a MSU fan, Weatherspoon is the guy I'd be most excited about among the freshmen on the roster.

I'm not sure what Vandy's issue is. I think at times it's live by the three die by the three, but there's not enough D for the margin of error that presents. You gotta wonder if Stallings isn't winning big with this roater, how will he ever have a more dynamic roster?

Bama_Man
02-17-2016, 06:42 AM
I'm not seeing why Bama should be in. That Wichita State win isn't what the name suggests. I'd take Texas Tech personally.

So the wins over Notre Dame, AnM, SC, and UF are just not important? Bama has a better case than several other teams.
TTs RPI is 31, Bama 34. Bama has better wins RPI wise, has a higher win % v RPI top 25, and both have one loss to a team outside RPI top 100. Bama has a higher non conference SOS. Wichita State is 54 in RPI right now but will be back inside top 50 by seasons end. Bamas resume is as good if not better than TTs.

Bama_Man
02-17-2016, 06:45 AM
I can def see the argument.....TT has some great wins

Other than Iowa State, who? ISU is 15 RPI, ND is 18, and Bama has more wins over top 27 RPI. Baylor (30), is similar to Florida at 32, and Bamas other two top 50 wins are better.

kentubbybasketball
02-17-2016, 06:50 AM
So the wins over Notre Dame, AnM, SC, and UF are just not important? Bama has a better case than several other teams.
TTs RPI is 31, Bama 34. Bama has better wins RPI wise, has a higher win % v RPI top 25, and both have one loss to a team outside RPI top 100. Bama has a higher non conference SOS. Wichita State is 54 in RPI right now but will be back inside top 50 by seasons end. Bamas resume is as good if not better than TTs.

I personally don't like RPI because it is a formula and you can make it say whatever you want. Plus there's multiple RPI formulas. The one you're using has Tech closer to no. 1, so all the other stuff that you're talking about that favors Bama doesn't favor Bama at the bottom line.

Given that both teams are 7th in their leagues, it's obviously Big 12 over the SEC.

But as I told you earlier this year, I'm not going to argue wit you. I respect your opinion and am not trying to change it or even debate it.

Bama_Man
02-17-2016, 08:38 AM
I personally don't like RPI because it is a formula and you can make it say whatever you want. Plus there's multiple RPI formulas. The one you're using has Tech closer to no. 1, so all the other stuff that you're talking about that favors Bama doesn't favor Bama at the bottom line.

Given that both teams are 7th in their leagues, it's obviously Big 12 over the SEC.

But as I told you earlier this year, I'm not going to argue wit you. I respect your opinion and am not trying to change it or even debate it.

So you wont expanding on why you believe Bama is undeserving? Even with better wins? And Bama could finish 5 in SEC, no way TT ends up any better than seventh.

Dawgilicious
02-17-2016, 09:40 AM
At this point we could make arguments for a bunch of teams as to why they should be in. There are reasons those teams are currently on the bubble. Win and things take care of themselves. Plus some of these other teams are most likely not going to finish undefeated the rest of the way. If TT can beat OU at home and steal one at KU or WVU then they are on to something.

Bama_Man
02-17-2016, 10:21 AM
At this point we could make arguments for a bunch of teams as to why they should be in. There are reasons those teams are currently on the bubble. Win and things take care of themselves. Plus some of these other teams are most likely not going to finish undefeated the rest of the way. If TT can beat OU at home and steal one at KU or WVU then they are on to something.

And I believe that is much tougher to do than Bama splitting with LSU and UK.

Dawgilicious
02-17-2016, 10:51 AM
And I believe that is much tougher to do than Bama splitting with LSU and UK.

Oh for sure it is. It helped with Creighton losing last night because they are part of that bubble talk as well. There are a lot of determining factors but it also helps that Louisville took themselves out because that opened up a spot

Bama_Man
02-17-2016, 01:05 PM
UoL and SMU would both be tourney teams so its good for teams like Bama, Vandy, Wisconsin and TT BC it opens up more spots.

Dawgilicious
02-17-2016, 01:22 PM
Yeah...Vandy is in real trouble after last night's loss. It will be interesting to see how this weekend goes for a number of teams fighting for a spot

dnmuga93
02-17-2016, 01:33 PM
Yeah...Vandy is in real trouble after last night's loss. It will be interesting to see how this weekend goes for a number of teams fighting for a spot

Saturday in Nashville is LARGE for both teams, but especially UGA IMO. We need a decent road win badly.

Dawgilicious
02-17-2016, 01:36 PM
Saturday in Nashville is LARGE for both teams, but especially UGA IMO. We need a decent road win badly.

I am not placing any money or confidence that we can go in there and win that game. I am not sure where our shooting has gone, but it has been non-existent the last 4 games. We are holding thin right now

kentubbybasketball
02-17-2016, 02:35 PM
So you wont expanding on why you believe Bama is undeserving? Even with better wins? And Bama could finish 5 in SEC, no way TT ends up any better than seventh.

No, I won't expand any further than I already have. I've already said why I think TTU is more deserving. What else is there to say? All you like to do is argue, and I'm not into that. I simply gave my opinion and I'm leaving it at that. You're going to keep your opinion regardless of what I say, and I will do the same. You're entitled to your opinion. I'm not trying to argue yours. FWIW, my initial post was not in response to you; it was in response to Dawgilicious, because with him it's talking basketball (not some major debate).

Bama_Man
02-17-2016, 02:41 PM
No, I won't expand any further than I already have. All you like to do is argue, and I'm not into that. I simply gave my opinion and I'm leaving it at that. You're going to keep your opinion regardless of what I say, and I will do the same. You're entitled to your opinion.


Then why even post on here of you have no intention of having a logical debate without name calling or insults? Its seems to me to be a cop out. You say something, then feel as if we should respect your opinion even tho you are unwilling to explain your position.

If Vandy loses to UGA, and Bama beats UGA, MSU, AU, and Arkansas, we may get in with losses to LSU and UK. The game tonight at LSU is HUGE for both teams. An LSU loss really hurts them, and a Bama win may well get them in if they beat who they should to end the season.

Bama_Man
02-17-2016, 02:48 PM
And why the hell is LSU considered a lock? Just BC of Simmons? Sure they are 9-3 in conference, but they are only 16-9 overall, half game better than Bama, and have fewer top 50 RPI wins, more losses to teams outside the RPI 100-150, and no bad losses. Bama also has much better quality losses like Dayton and Oregon. LSUs non conference SOS is 221 and non conference RPI of 117. Their overall SOS sucks too, its 85. Bamas is 13.

Bama?
Non con SOS-18
Non con RPI-41
SOS-13
RPI-34 (LSU is 71)


Alabama's resume>>>>>>>LSUs

kentubbybasketball
02-17-2016, 02:53 PM
Then why even post on here of you have no intention of having a logical debate without name calling or insults? Its seems to me to be a cop out. You say something, then feel as if we should respect your opinion even tho you are unwilling to explain your position.

If Vandy loses to UGA, and Bama beats UGA, MSU, AU, and Arkansas, we may get in with losses to LSU and UK. The game tonight at LSU is HUGE for both teams. An LSU loss really hurts them, and a Bama win may well get them in if they beat who they should to end the season.

Nope, I'm not unwilling to explain my opinion. Nobody has asked for an further explanation, but you, and my experience with you has been that it leads nowhere fast. I'm saving myself and you the time. If somebody else asked, I'd delve further into why I like Tech more.

BTW, I'm not expecting you to respect my opinion. My comments were not directed at you.

kentubbybasketball
02-17-2016, 02:54 PM
Anyway back to the discussion at hand. I don't see how LSU loses another game if they don't lose tonight (other than potentially to UK). LSU should have the inside track on the SEC title.

Bama_Man
02-17-2016, 03:01 PM
Nope, I'm not unwilling to explain my opinion. Nobody has asked for an further explanation, but you, and my experience with you has been that it leads nowhere fast. I'm saving myself and you the time. If somebody else asked, I'd delve further into why I like Tech more.

BTW, I'm not expecting you to respect my opinion. My comments were not directed at you.

No, you are COMPLETELY disrespecting me, acting as if I am unworthy of your time. I am not going to insult you, if you lay out a logical case as to why TT deserves it more, I would listen with open ears, but you have no respect for me and view me as being beneath you.

kentubbybasketball
02-17-2016, 03:10 PM
I'm sorry you feel disrespected, but I feel disrespected, too.

First thing is all these SEC wins that Bama is racking up are maybe not worth as much as you think. Bama is seventh in its conference. Tech is seventh in its conference also, and the Big 12 deserves 6 or 7 bids. How will the SEC stretch to seven bids? Next, I think soem of Bama's wins come with an asterick. For instance, the Wichita State win I referenced earlier was without some of their better players and WSU is not all that great this year compared to other years anyway. It's more name than game. Every Big 12 win that Tech racks up is worth something, because they are basically over tourney teams.

Herchel
02-17-2016, 03:18 PM
And I believe that is much tougher to do than Bama splitting with LSU and UK.
Are you assuming @UGA is a W?

Dawgilicious
02-17-2016, 03:48 PM
If it comes down to Bama and LSU and Bama loses tonight, it would be tough to take them. LSU would have swept them and Bama has bad losses to Ole Miss and Auburn.....It is never a perfect system, but I think Bama would need 21 wins to get in, of course that is contingent on what some of the other bubble teams do.

Bama_Man
02-17-2016, 04:08 PM
I'm sorry you feel disrespected, but I feel disrespected, too.

First thing is all these SEC wins that Bama is racking up are maybe not worth as much as you think. Bama is seventh in its conference. Tech is seventh in its conference also, and the Big 12 deserves 6 or 7 bids. How will the SEC stretch to seven bids? Next, I think soem of Bama's wins come with an asterick. For instance, the Wichita State win I referenced earlier was without some of their better players and WSU is not all that great this year compared to other years anyway. It's more name than game. Every Big 12 win that Tech racks up is worth something, because they are basically over tourney teams.

Wichita State was without one of their best players, just one. But what about Notre Dame, who's RPI is top 20 or Clemson? And the TAMU win and UF win need to count for a lot, as both have HUGE wins over B12 teams, which is best conference.

I'm not saying TT is undeserving, they have an RPI three spots higher than Alabama and play in much tougher conference. TT has a higher SOS but Bama has higher non con SOS, and better non con RPI. TT has some great wins, Iowa State, Baylor, and Texas, but are they better than ND, TAMU that beat ISU, and Florida who beat WVU? TT is under .500 in conference, while Alabama is right at .500. Bamas top 50 wins average out higher than TTs do, and Bama has a better win % against top 25 and top 50 teams and both have one loss to a team outside the RPI top 100.

And H., Bama is the better team, but its far from a given that Bama wins on the road.

Bama_Man
02-17-2016, 04:32 PM
If it comes down to Bama and LSU and Bama loses tonight, it would be tough to take them. LSU would have swept them and Bama has bad losses to Ole Miss and Auburn.....It is never a perfect system, but I think Bama would need 21 wins to get in, of course that is contingent on what some of the other bubble teams do.

21 wins? That would mean Bama would have to win out. I think 19 wins gets us in, if we beat LSU tonight. LSU/Bama tonight could be a potential play in game, LSU does not have the resume Bama has, buthey would have swept us. People forget, that if Oregon hadn't gotten a huge call and hit a big late shot,Bama would have a win over 4 RPI Oregon. Same with LSU/OU/.

Herchel
02-17-2016, 04:47 PM
21 wins? That would mean Bama would have to win out. I think 19 wins gets us in, if we beat LSU tonight. LSU/Bama tonight could be a potential play in game, LSU does not have the resume Bama has, buthey would have swept us. People forget, that if Oregon hadn't gotten a huge call and hit a big late shot,Bama would have a win over 4 RPI Oregon. Same with LSU/OU/.
UGA lost in OT at LSU, and were robbed at OM, just sayin".

Dawgilicious
02-17-2016, 04:56 PM
21 wins? That would mean Bama would have to win out. I think 19 wins gets us in, if we beat LSU tonight. LSU/Bama tonight could be a potential play in game, LSU does not have the resume Bama has, buthey would have swept us. People forget, that if Oregon hadn't gotten a huge call and hit a big late shot,Bama would have a win over 4 RPI Oregon. Same with LSU/OU/.

Not necessarily. You could get some wins in the SECT. I just don't think 19-13 will get you in unless you are top 20 in the RPI. I could be wrong, but I just don't see it. True, you had a shot to beat Oregon but those things happen. The good losses aren't helping either because Dayton and Xavier throttled Alabama. Granted those were very early games. In the end, none of this is contingent on just Bama. if other bubble teams continue to lose then the bubble widens and leaves space for other teams to jump in. Time will tell

Herchel
02-17-2016, 05:01 PM
Bama's RPI is 37and LSU's is 74. I don't see LSU getting in regardless. If UGA had played the 72nd ranked schedule like LSU, the record would be 17-9.

Dawgilicious
02-17-2016, 05:05 PM
Little excerpt on Bama:

"What I really think is, I think they still need one more really good win," Lunardi said. "I know they have some good wins. Notre Dame's a really good win. At Clemson is a good win, but I don't think Clemson's going to stay in the picture much longer. Wichita State, how much will the committee factor in that it wasn't the full Wichita State at that point? Hard to say.

"South Carolina at home was another good win. But again, South Carolina's a team with a little bit of a hollow resume because their out of conference (schedule) is so weak. Same with Clemson for that matter."

If they win tonight, it def puts them in a much better position

Djshockley3
02-17-2016, 05:15 PM
Bama's RPI is 37and LSU's is 74. I don't see LSU getting in regardless. If UGA had played the 72nd ranked schedule like LSU, the record would be 17-9.

UGA sucks. Mark Fox sucks. No idea why you keep defending this team.

Herchel
02-17-2016, 05:31 PM
UGA sucks. Mark Fox sucks. No idea why you keep defending this team.
I am just posting facts. Is that defending?

kentubbybasketball
02-17-2016, 05:38 PM
Wichita State was without one of their best players, just one. But what about Notre Dame, who's RPI is top 20 or Clemson? And the TAMU win and UF win need to count for a lot, as both have HUGE wins over B12 teams, which is best conference.

I'm not saying TT is undeserving, they have an RPI three spots higher than Alabama and play in much tougher conference. TT has a higher SOS but Bama has higher non con SOS, and better non con RPI. TT has some great wins, Iowa State, Baylor, and Texas, but are they better than ND, TAMU that beat ISU, and Florida who beat WVU? TT is under .500 in conference, while Alabama is right at .500. Bamas top 50 wins average out higher than TTs do, and Bama has a better win % against top 25 and top 50 teams and both have one loss to a team outside the RPI top 100.

And H., Bama is the better team, but its far from a given that Bama wins on the road.
Again, that's why I didn't want to get into this. We're just repeating the same things. I have never used RPI... you are and Tech is higher.

At this point both teams are on the bubble for a reason. You keep saying you need to split UK and LSU. What kind of resume does LSU have thay it automatically is a win that gets Bama in???? They're trying to get in themselves.

Dawgilicious
02-17-2016, 07:18 PM
At least be more definitive than just saying UGA sucks and Mark Fox sucks. That tells nobody anything. I guess the players on the court have no bearing on it either. Are we an elite team? M\No, but we are not Illinois, Boston College or Rutgers either. Will he get fired? yeah he might, but an elite coach isn't leaving a great school to come to UGA either

Bama_Man
02-17-2016, 07:20 PM
Again, that's why I didn't want to get into this. We're just repeating the same things. I have never used RPI... you are and Tech is higher.

At this point both teams are on the bubble for a reason. You keep saying you need to split UK and LSU. What kind of resume does LSU have thay it automatically is a win that gets Bama in???? They're trying to get in themselves.

I say Bama gets in with a win over LSU and only losing to UK to end the season because that would put Bama at 20-10 and 10-7 in conference.

Bama_Man
02-17-2016, 07:23 PM
Little excerpt on Bama:

"What I really think is, I think they still need one more really good win," Lunardi said. "I know they have some good wins. Notre Dame's a really good win. At Clemson is a good win, but I don't think Clemson's going to stay in the picture much longer. Wichita State, how much will the committee factor in that it wasn't the full Wichita State at that point? Hard to say.

"South Carolina at home was another good win. But again, South Carolina's a team with a little bit of a hollow resume because their out of conference (schedule) is so weak. Same with Clemson for that matter."

If they win tonight, it def puts them in a much better position

Read that on AL.com earlier but I believe he is being hard on Bama and soft on LSU, who has a weak resume and bad losses. Its as if they just want LSU in because they want Simmons in the tourney.

kentubbybasketball
02-17-2016, 09:14 PM
Does UGA have the gall to go thru firing another classy coach in the same year? The days of "Tubby" coming are not gone though, Dawg. You could land another up and Comer like he was then imo.

kentubbybasketball
02-17-2016, 09:20 PM
Look nobody likes Avery more than me. He'd get my "vote" for COY with how USC seems to be imploding. But, 10-8 in a weak league with maybe no top 4 seeded teams probably isn't great.

Bama_Man
02-17-2016, 09:48 PM
Look nobody likes Avery more than me. He'd get my "vote" for COY with how USC seems to be imploding. But, 10-8 in a weak league with maybe no top 4 seeded teams probably isn't great.
AJs coach of the year by far not even close. But do the OOC wins not outweigh 10-8 in conference?

Dawg4life
02-17-2016, 09:50 PM
One of the issues for Georgia is they're playing a half court game with mostly players that are better in a run and gun style. They are probably a tourney team with a different offense and better management of the roster, however not really one that has much of a chance of making a deep run. Maybe one win.

They really should only be going 9 deep in my better management of the roster and that's very shaky depth.

Djshockley3
02-17-2016, 11:14 PM
At least be more definitive than just saying UGA sucks and Mark Fox sucks. That tells nobody anything. I guess the players on the court have no bearing on it either. Are we an elite team? M\No, but we are not Illinois, Boston College or Rutgers either. Will he get fired? yeah he might, but an elite coach isn't leaving a great school to come to UGA either

Why does Houston Kessler continue to see 15-20 minutes a game. Why does he play over Mike Edwards?

That says it all. Kessler is the worst player I have ever seen get that many minutes a game on a big D-1 school.

kentubbybasketball
02-18-2016, 12:09 AM
Go Texas Tech. Huge won over Oklahoma. That's as massive a win that anybody has in the bubble.

Dawgilicious
02-18-2016, 08:00 AM
Why does Houston Kessler continue to see 15-20 minutes a game. Why does he play over Mike Edwards?

That says it all. Kessler is the worst player I have ever seen get that many minutes a game on a big D-1 school.

Mostly cause Edwards is not getting it done in practice and when he does play he is sparingly consistent. He is also a brutal FT shooter which hurts you when people will continue to foul him. Edwards played more minutes than Kessler vs UF, of course he did not do too much on the court with that time. The issue in the past few weeks has been our shooting and especially Frazier's shooting. Maten struggled with his shot vs UF also. If Maten isn't scoring at a high rate we are in trouble

Dawgilicious
02-18-2016, 08:01 AM
Go Texas Tech. Huge won over Oklahoma. That's as massive a win that anybody has in the bubble.

That was a great win. Huge for TT. Their last 3 wins have been great

Dawgilicious
02-18-2016, 08:14 AM
Lunardi tweet:

Overnight bubble shifts: IN (Butler, Alabama) and OUT (Vandy, Saint Mary's).

He said he will release a new bracket today. Interesting to see where things are at

Bama_Man
02-18-2016, 08:39 AM
Roll Tide!! A road win at LSU is huge. Lunardi has us in.

Dawgilicious
02-18-2016, 09:11 AM
Yeah, I concurred with him saying you needed one more big win because Clemson will fall off and you just don't know how much credit you get for the WSU win. Now, Bama has to hold serve at home and spilt on the road, along with not losing to a lower seeded team in the SECT and they should be good. Obasahan was really good last night too

Dawgilicious
02-18-2016, 09:26 AM
Lunardi has made his 2/18 Bracket, here is Bama's setup

5Texas
12Alabama / 12Cincinnati
4Duke
13STONY BROOK

darthvaderbilt
02-18-2016, 12:35 PM
Bama plays 18 conference games

kentubbybasketball
02-18-2016, 02:45 PM
Lunardi has made his 2/18 Bracket, here is Bama's setup

5Texas
12Alabama / 12Cincinnati
4Duke
13STONY BROOK

So, in a normal year (according to Lunardi anyway), Bama nor Cincy would be in, since SMU and UofL have left two spots open. This bubble stuff is such a fluid situation, because Texas Tech beats Oklahoma, but by virtue of beating OU, OU is not going to be viewed as being as strong as the win would indicate.

Speaking of UofL and Duke, those huge wins for UK should help our seed. If we win the SEC on top of that (thanks to the TAMU implosion), I can't understand why we won't be a top 3 seed.

Bama_Man
02-18-2016, 03:10 PM
Yeah, I concurred with him saying you needed one more big win because Clemson will fall off and you just don't know how much credit you get for the WSU win. Now, Bama has to hold serve at home and spilt on the road, along with not losing to a lower seeded team in the SECT and they should be good. Obasahan was really good last night too

RO had a career high 35 last night, he was unstoppable. In the second half, he was the best player on the floor. I hope Clemson keeps winning, their resume pales to Bamas and we hold a head to head win over them so I want their RPI high. UK is likely going to beat us, but if we win the home games and beat UGA and don't lose in opener of the SECT, I believe Bama is in.

Bama_Man
02-18-2016, 03:11 PM
All this for a team picked to finish next to last in the SEC, Avery Johnson is clearly COY

kentubbybasketball
02-18-2016, 03:18 PM
If Frank wins the SEC (which is less likely than it was two games ago), he should be COY. I think Cal has a say so as well, if he wins the league. To win the league after losing 7 NBA players... SEVEN... is as impressive as what Avery has done IMO.

Dawg4life
02-18-2016, 03:30 PM
Mostly cause Edwards is not getting it done in practice and when he does play he is sparingly consistent. He is also a brutal FT shooter which hurts you when people will continue to foul him. Edwards played more minutes than Kessler vs UF, of course he did not do too much on the court with that time. The issue in the past few weeks has been our shooting and especially Frazier's shooting. Maten struggled with his shot vs UF also. If Maten isn't scoring at a high rate we are in trouble

You are playing 4 on 5 on offense with any of the offensive options right now, why not just let a young player develop instead of wasting minutes for Kessler. That should be the third option off the bench. The first option should be 4 out and 1 in with 4 guards, the second should be Edwards, and then the third one should be Kessler if the first two bench options don't work.

Bama_Man
02-18-2016, 03:38 PM
If Frank wins the SEC (which is less likely than it was two games ago), he should be COY. I think Cal has a say so as well, if he wins the league. To win the league after losing 7 NBA players... SEVEN... is as impressive as what Avery has done IMO.

Can't see SC winning the league, so it has to go to Avery. Look at the talent UK has opposed to Alabama, and UK was picked to finish 1st or 2nd I'm SEC while Bama was picked 13th.

If LSU gets in, or gets a higher seed without a play in game, I will be FURIOUS. Alabama has better wins, resume, and higher RPI.

Neither TT nor Bama should have to be in play in game. Both have top 30 RPIs, TT at 28 and Bama at 30.

Bama_Man
02-18-2016, 03:45 PM
And Pitt? WTF has Pitt done to be in? Its BS. Both TT/Bama should be in and Pitt should be out or a play in game.
Pitt:
Two top 50 wins: 39 Cuse, 20 ND
RPI of 42
SOS-52
Non con SOS-151
Non con RPI-27
3-10 v RPI top 50

Hell lookin at it, Bama has two more top 50 RPI wins than Baylor.

Djshockley3
02-18-2016, 03:55 PM
Mostly cause Edwards is not getting it done in practice and when he does play he is sparingly consistent. He is also a brutal FT shooter which hurts you when people will continue to foul him. Edwards played more minutes than Kessler vs UF, of course he did not do too much on the court with that time. The issue in the past few weeks has been our shooting and especially Frazier's shooting. Maten struggled with his shot vs UF also. If Maten isn't scoring at a high rate we are in trouble

This team needs Frazier to shoot really well to win usually. Mann and Gaines are so back and forth.

Bama_Man
02-18-2016, 03:55 PM
CBS has Bama solidly in as an 8 seed, Wisconsin/Cincy/Michigan and George Washington in play in games.

For the SEC, they have:
UK as a 5,
SC as a 7
Bama as an 8
A&M as a 6
UF as a 10

Didn't see Vandy listed

Dawgilicious
02-18-2016, 04:12 PM
Pitt will fall off soon enough, esp if they cant beat Duke next weekend. if they win that game then they prob hang around. It is all a guessing game right now bcause we don't know what the committee is going to be strong on. If I were Bama, I would rather be a 11/12 than an 8. bama is not beating any of the 1 seeds, fwiw

Dawgilicious
02-18-2016, 04:12 PM
This team needs Frazier to shoot really well to win usually. Mann and Gaines are so back and forth.

Yeah we are dead when he struggles

Dawgilicious
02-18-2016, 04:16 PM
And Pitt? WTF has Pitt done to be in? Its BS. Both TT/Bama should be in and Pitt should be out or a play in game.
Pitt:
Two top 50 wins: 39 Cuse, 20 ND
RPI of 42
SOS-52
Non con SOS-151
Non con RPI-27
3-10 v RPI top 50

Hell lookin at it, Bama has two more top 50 RPI wins than Baylor.

Its a complete body of work and people get worked up over what the RPI # is. Some people like it and some don't. Bama just looks good cause they are getting hot at the right time and Pitt has been struggling. Pitt's next 3 are Syracuse, Louisville, and Duke. if they somehow sweep that then they would have picked up 3 quality wins right there. THh SEC being down will hurt Bama's seed line also, especially compared to a Big 12 school.

I do think Pitt will fall off and won't be in the conversation very much longer. what would def help Bama is if Clemson can get back into the conversation since you beat them

kentubbybasketball
02-18-2016, 04:35 PM
Can't see SC winning the league, so it has to go to Avery. Look at the talent UK has opposed to Alabama, and UK was picked to finish 1st or 2nd I'm SEC while Bama was picked 13th.

If LSU gets in, or gets a higher seed without a play in game, I will be FURIOUS. Alabama has better wins, resume, and higher RPI.

Neither TT nor Bama should have to be in play in game. Both have top 30 RPIs, TT at 28 and Bama at 30.

SO, recruiting is not part of the job????? I mean, just because Cal is recruiting good enough players to be preseason #1, he doesn't deserve COY? THere's something to be said about being picked #1 and finishing #1. To me that is unsound logic; I mean, it's as egregious as Phil Jackson being NBA COY only once with the Bulls. That's plain stupid.

Let's face it, recruiting is part of the job, just as much as coaching the actual games. If anything recruiting is more important... in that case, Cal is COY every year.

I think people understate how hard it is to win with talent. I mean, somebody else has the #1 pick in this league is has lost 10 or 11 games already. Being picked first and finishing there is COY-worthy. Every game UK goes into, we are the hunted. If that's not impressive to still withstand that pressure and be on top, I don't know what's more impressive. TAMU was 3 games ahead in the league, became the hunted, and lost 5 of 6.

Dawgilicious
02-18-2016, 04:35 PM
I am also very interested to see how SC gets seeded. The committee has said they want teams to test themselves in the OOC and SC did not do that. Of course it does not help that Memphis,Tulsa, SJU are not NCAAT teams this season. Non-Conf SOS in the 200s is not very good, plus a terrible loss to Missouri.

kentubbybasketball
02-18-2016, 04:37 PM
Its a complete body of work and people get worked up over what the RPI # is. Some people like it and some don't. Bama just looks good cause they are getting hot at the right time and Pitt has been struggling. Pitt's next 3 are Syracuse, Louisville, and Duke. if they somehow sweep that then they would have picked up 3 quality wins right there. THh SEC being down will hurt Bama's seed line also, especially compared to a Big 12 school.

I do think Pitt will fall off and won't be in the conversation very much longer. what would def help Bama is if Clemson can get back into the conversation since you beat them

What constitutes that Bama has even gotten hot at the right time though. They're beating up on the SEC and getting wins that honestly won't resonate as much as some are wanting to think. I hope Bama gets in. I like Avery Johnson, but I think Bama is piling up wins over the likes of Florida and LSU, which virtually any bubble team should do. To me, losing to LSU would've been much more damaging from a computer numbers standpoint.

kentubbybasketball
02-18-2016, 04:38 PM
I am also very interested to see how SC gets seeded. The committee has said they want teams to test themselves in the OOC and SC did not do that. Of course it does not help that Memphis,Tulsa, SJU are not NCAAT teams this season. Non-Conf SOS in the 200s is not very good, plus a terrible loss to Missouri.

If that's the argument, then Texas Tech is up a creek. The Little Rock and Hawaii wins are solid for Tech, but the OOC was not great. The difference with Tech and SCAR though is that Tech plays in the Big Ten. Our SOS with all these Big 12 games is 3rd in the country, that's with a weak OOC.

I would say UK and Texas A&M are the only teams that are locks. Those are the only two programs that could lose every game and still make it from today (granted that won't happen since these two teams play Saturday, but you get the point).

Dawgilicious
02-18-2016, 04:41 PM
If that's the argument, then Texas Tech is up a creek. The Little Rock and Hawaii wins are solid for Tech, but the OOC was not great. The difference with Tech and SCAR though is that Tech plays in the Big Ten. Our SOS with all these Big 12 games is 3rd in the country, that's with a weak OOC.

Of course Minnesota and Miss St not being good doesnt help TT out either. High Point is prob an NCAAT team so thats a decent win also. They also have a top 50 win vs SDSU. One thing that def helps Tubby is that he is racking up great wins in conference and it helps the Big 12 is the top conference right now

Dawgilicious
02-18-2016, 04:41 PM
What constitutes that Bama has even gotten hot at the right time though. They're beating up on the SEC and getting wins that honestly won't resonate as much as some are wanting to think. I hope Bama gets in. I like Avery Johnson, but I think Bama is piling up wins over the likes of Florida and LSU, which virtually any bubble team should do.

Bubble being weak helps them out too. A stronger bubble and they might be looking for more wins. In recent years, a 15-9 team in the SEC is not sitting in the NCAAT

kentubbybasketball
02-18-2016, 04:44 PM
Of course Minnesota and Miss St not being good doesnt help TT out either. High Point is prob an NCAAT team so thats a decent win also. They also have a top 50 win vs SDSU. One thing that def helps Tubby is that he is racking up great wins in conference and it helps the Big 12 is the top conference right now

I also think "how you're playing lately" matters. I know last ten or twelve doesn't count anymore, but I would imagine when you get down to the bubble, it swings things one way or the other.

BTW, 0-14 Minnesota should be kicking itself for how it treated Tubby.

Dawgilicious
02-18-2016, 04:44 PM
Bubble teams in action tonight:

Cincinnati @ Tulsa
SMU @ UConn
Pacific @ Zags
St. Mary's @ Portland

Dawgilicious
02-18-2016, 04:46 PM
I also think "how you're playing lately" matters. I know last ten or twelve doesn't count anymore, but I would imagine when you get down to the bubble, it swings things one way or the other.

BTW, 0-14 Minnesota should be kicking itself for how it treated Tubby.

I was thinking the same thing. They threw Tubby away like old trash, thats why I hope he gets in to prove to Minnesota that they dropped the ball. Also agree that how you end is huge, just for the picture that you show. Even if it isn't calculated in, it has to have a factor on the committee because of the perception

kentubbybasketball
02-18-2016, 04:48 PM
Obviously, I'm a Tubby mark and I'm from Minnesota, so I hear on both ends. Norwood Teague basically screwed Minnesota in firing Tubby and then he screwed Minny with his own personal indescretions, which is why he's out of athletics. The natives are not too happy with Richard Pitino, but of course, it's all Tubby's fault.

Look I've always said be careful when you fire a good coach or don't appreciate him. UK learned after Tubby left. Minnesota is learning the same thing. Mississippi State learned after Rick Stansbury. There's plenty of examples to go around. Vandy may find out if they let Stallings go.

Speaking of the B1G, Wisky is coming out of nowhere to get onto the bubble also. It's kinda like Bama and Tech. 3 weeks ago nobody was entertaining thoughts of these teams on the bubble. However, as the Gonzaga's of the world continue to lose and those teams win, it has tightened things up.

Dawgilicious
02-18-2016, 04:53 PM
Yes that is the crazy thing. All it takes is for one top 20 win and things tighten up, teams lose a game here or there. Wisconsin is def like Bama in that nobody had them pegged, then they go and start winning and get into the conversation. if they beat Sparty tonight then they start looking really good for a berth

Herchel
02-18-2016, 05:12 PM
I think people understate how hard it is to win with talent. I mean, somebody else has the #1 pick in this league is has lost 10 or 11 games already. Being picked first and finishing there is COY-worthy. Every game UK goes into, we are the hunted. If that's not impressive to still withstand that pressure and be on top, I don't know what's more impressive. TAMU was 3 games ahead in the league, became the hunted, and lost 5 of 6.

Maybe it's just me, but I think it is infinitely more difficult to win without talent.

kentubbybasketball
02-18-2016, 05:45 PM
Maybe it's just me, but I think it is infinitely more difficult to win without talent.

You're entitled to that opinion. I'm basing this off what Frank Martin said after the UK game Saturday. As he said, the egos and outside stuff you deal with when it comes to "great talent" can be very difficult.

But that's not the point. The point is each coach is responsible for getting his own talent. Why should Cal be penalized in SEC COY balloting, because he's great at securing talent? That's stupid. In what other profession are you not honored for doing a part of your job well.

Bama_Man
02-18-2016, 07:14 PM
SO, recruiting is not part of the job????? I mean, just because Cal is recruiting good enough players to be preseason #1, he doesn't deserve COY? THere's something to be said about being picked #1 and finishing #1. To me that is unsound logic; I mean, it's as egregious as Phil Jackson being NBA COY only once with the Bulls. That's plain stupid.

Let's face it, recruiting is part of the job, just as much as coaching the actual games. If anything recruiting is more important... in that case, Cal is COY every year.

I think people understate how hard it is to win with talent. I mean, somebody else has the #1 pick in this league is has lost 10 or 11 games already. Being picked first and finishing there is COY-worthy. Every game UK goes into, we are the hunted. If that's not impressive to still withstand that pressure and be on top, I don't know what's more impressive. TAMU was 3 games ahead in the league, became the hunted, and lost 5 of 6.

A-UK can recruit itself to an extent.
B-UK was picked to win the !league because they return some talent and brought in one of the best classes in the nation.
C-Should Nick Saban be SEC COY every year because Alabama is always the hunted? No
D-If anything, Cal has underachieved this year, barely being a top 20 team after being a preseason top 10 team
E-Coaches who overachieve dramatically have, by definition, done better coaching jobs because they didn't have seven McDs AAs to rely on.

Cal has no place at the table in terms of COY this year. Its Frank Martin and Avery Johnson. If UK was picked to finish first, and finishes first, he met expectations. If Alabama was picked to be horrendous, yet ends up in NCAAT and wins 10 conference games, he wildly exceeded expectations.
So, in that scenario, why should Cal win COY when he did nothing more than what was expected? The SEC is not a great conference, esp with LSU underachieving, so a team that is loaded with talent should win the league.

And lol and being picked first and finishing first is deserving of COY. If your team is that much more talented than everyone else, then you don't get extra credit for winning. That's why Nick Saban isn't COY every season.
A team that finishes almost ten spots higher than they were picked preseason, and could make the tourney, has been a much better coaching job. If either Martin or Johnson isn't COY and Cal is, its a joke.

Bama_Man
02-18-2016, 07:18 PM
What constitutes that Bama has even gotten hot at the right time though. They're beating up on the SEC and getting wins that honestly won't resonate as much as some are wanting to think. I hope Bama gets in. I like Avery Johnson, but I think Bama is piling up wins over the likes of Florida and LSU, which virtually any bubble team should do. To me, losing to LSU would've been much more damaging from a computer numbers standpoint.

Guess those non conference wins over Notre Dame, Wichita State and Clemson are just forgotten. Florida beat top ten WVU and LSU should have beaten OU, not to mention Bama tested itself OOC by playing Oregon, Xavier and Dayton, all top 12 RPI teams. Florida is almost a lock for the tourney and has a top 35 RPI, they are a quality team. LSU I agree, but not UF.

Bama_Man
02-18-2016, 07:20 PM
Maybe it's just me, but I think it is infinitely more difficult to win without talent.

It is, any sane person would agree with that.

Dawgilicious
02-18-2016, 07:25 PM
Guess those non conference wins over Notre Dame, Wichita State and Clemson are just forgotten. Florida beat top ten WVU and LSU should have beaten OU, not to mention Bama tested itself OOC by playing Oregon, Xavier and Dayton, all top 12 RPI teams. Florida is almost a lock for the tourney and has a top 35 RPI, they are a quality team. LSU I agree, but not UF.

Clemson only helps you if they can stay around the bubble. If they start dropping games that win will not look as good. I still you guys are in good shape, unless you drop a game at home vs an inferior team

kentubbybasketball
02-18-2016, 08:02 PM
A-UK can recruit itself to an extent.
B-UK was picked to win the !league because they return some talent and brought in one of the best classes in the nation.
C-Should Nick Saban be SEC COY every year because Alabama is always the hunted? No
D-If anything, Cal has underachieved this year, barely being a top 20 team after being a preseason top 10 team
E-Coaches who overachieve dramatically have, by definition, done better coaching jobs because they didn't have seven McDs AAs to rely on.

Cal has no place at the table in terms of COY this year. Its Frank Martin and Avery Johnson. If UK was picked to finish first, and finishes first, he met expectations. If Alabama was picked to be horrendous, yet ends up in NCAAT and wins 10 conference games, he wildly exceeded expectations.
So, in that scenario, why should Cal win COY when he did nothing more than what was expected? The SEC is not a great conference, esp with LSU underachieving, so a team that is loaded with talent should win the league.

And lol and being picked first and finishing first is deserving of COY. If your team is that much more talented than everyone else, then you don't get extra credit for winning. That's why Nick Saban isn't COY every season.
A team that finishes almost ten spots higher than they were picked preseason, and could make the tourney, has been a much better coaching job. If either Martin or Johnson isn't COY and Cal is, its a joke.

Haha

Basically what you're saying is any coach picked to win can never win COY. Guess it was a joke that Cal won last year given he was picked first then.

All I know is recruiting is part of the job and Cal is owning that. I'm not sure what people expect. But, hey I'll give up the occasional COY award if it means we have the best players AND the best results. If somebody who goes 10-8 wins COY, there's nothing Cal can do about that.

Cal has done air ably given all the injuries we've had too. We won without Poythress and Lee today inside. Cal is winning with a three star in Derek Willis; it's not all McD AAs.

I can't speak Nick Saban because I don't keep up with that and I could careless. But thanks for reminding why I wasn't responding to your posts. I'll go back to that. Everything is an argument and debate, and you respecially nobody else's opinion. How dare somebody voice a different opinion.

kentubbybasketball
02-18-2016, 08:06 PM
Clemson only helps you if they can stay around the bubble. If they start dropping games that win will not look as good. I still you guys are in good shape, unless you drop a game at home vs an inferior team
I agree. If you gotta keep hyping WSU, which had lost to teams similarly mediocre as Bama, that says it all. You've already tackled the Clemson thing.

Bama_Man
02-18-2016, 11:29 PM
Off topic question:

Will the committee try and get LSU in because of Simmons? Everyone wants to see the best player play in the tourney,but IMO a team should not get in just because it was the likely #1 pick, but I am hearing some say that LSU should get in just so Simmons gets to play on the national stage.


Opinions?

Bama_Man
02-18-2016, 11:46 PM
Haha

Basically what you're saying is any coach picked to win can never win COY. Guess it was a joke that Cal won last year given he was picked first then.

All I know is recruiting is part of the job and Cal is owning that. I'm not sure what people expect. But, hey I'll give up the occasional COY award if it means we have the best players AND the best results. If somebody who goes 10-8 wins COY, there's nothing Cal can do about that.

Cal has done air ably given all the injuries we've had too. We won without Poythress and Lee today inside. Cal is winning with a three star in Derek Willis; it's not all McD AAs.

I can't speak Nick Saban because I don't keep up with that and I could careless. But thanks for reminding why I wasn't responding to your posts. I'll go back to that. Everything is an argument and debate, and you respecially nobody else's opinion. How dare somebody voice a different opinion.

How many three stars does Bama have? One, if that. Cal won it last year deservingly so because he had a historically great season and was ranked #1.
UK isn't the only team with injuries, Bamas leading scorer ATT missed 4-5 games.

Just because someone disagrees with you does not mean they don't respect your opinion. Reasonable people disagree all the time. H and I go at each other HARD at times, but I respect his opinion. I respect anyone's opinion, but that doesn't mean I have to agree. You just think that if I don't take your word as gospel and believe what you believe 100% that I'm wrong or being disrespectful. Not true. You just can't handle the fact that I am willing to go back at you if I disagree with what you say. If your fragile little psyche can't handle disagreements, stay off the internet. Dawg and I had a huge argument in an NFL thread yet we are civil and respectful here. You are just too sensitive. I don't mean this in a mean way, but nut up. Quit being a baby because someone disagrees with you.

And no, Cal does not deserve COY this year, and I'd bet 99% of UK fans agree with me as UK underachieved. If I took a poll, I guarantee either Martin or Johnson would be voted COY, and either choice would be deserving. UK does not get to win every award every year, just like Portis winning

Dawgilicious
02-19-2016, 08:03 AM
Off topic question:

Will the committee try and get LSU in because of Simmons? Everyone wants to see the best player play in the tourney,but IMO a team should not get in just because it was the likely #1 pick, but I am hearing some say that LSU should get in just so Simmons gets to play on the national stage.


Opinions?

It would def be nice, but I am not sure if the committee will place them in just because of that. I am sure if they do get in without any more significant wins people would scream that

Dawgilicious
02-19-2016, 08:05 AM
One thing bubble teams have to watch out for are the usual one-bid leagues getting 2 bids because a few weeks ago the committee chair said it was a real possibility. So the Sun Belt, Horizon, and MAAC could turn into multiple bid leagues if things fall. I would say UALR would be the least of those options since they dropped a game to a lesser team in their conference, but that will be an interesting storyline going forward

msudawg4life
02-19-2016, 09:21 AM
Unless UK goes on a major run, which they may still do, I do not see Cal getting the award. That being said I do not think there is really a clear favorite for that yet.

msudawg4life
02-19-2016, 09:21 AM
If LSU gets in because of Simmons over another team with a better resume but maybe not such a high profile player that would be a disgrace!

Dawgilicious
02-19-2016, 09:37 AM
If LSU gets in because of Simmons over another team with a better resume but maybe not such a high profile player that would be a disgrace!

The only way we would know that is if it is blatantly mentioned by the committee, but if they do get in, I am sure that will be what the public will let their mind tell them....It is too early to know right now though

Bama_Man
02-19-2016, 02:48 PM
The only way we would know that is if it is blatantly mentioned by the committee, but if they do get in, I am sure that will be what the public will let their mind tell them....It is too early to know right now though

Unless something changes, how else could you justify putting LSU in? Aside from their good conference standing, they have like two quality wins and justnlost a home game to another bubble team. They could be 0-2 v Bama if the Tide didn't choke at home. They were very impressive againstnUK and for 38 mins vs OU, but other bubble teams either have better wins (TT, Wisc), or more quality wins.

Conference tourneys always scare me. When a couple of teams win them and take a spot for a bubble team, it makes it that much harder.

kentubbybasketball
02-19-2016, 02:54 PM
Unless UK goes on a major run, which they may still do, I do not see Cal getting the award. That being said I do not think there is really a clear favorite for that yet.
4life, I respect your opinion. There's a notion that I don't like when people disagree with me. You don't agree with me.

I will say this. UK has not had a game this year where everybody was able to play. There's been injuries. Cal has still got us in position to win the league. If we often give POY to a player on the best team, why doesn't the coach of the best team often win.

Cal's coaching job has been incredible. Who else lost 7 to the NBA, including the top pick. To withstand that while LSU and TAMU have great rosters and others like USC are greatly improved, is kudos to Cal.

Again, look Cal is in the HOF. Missing out on COY for one year really doesn't hurt my feelings. I don't think Cal will win it. I've said I think Frank should win it. Just because that's how it usually goes. It doesn't make it right or fair.

kentubbybasketball
02-19-2016, 02:56 PM
The only way we would know that is if it is blatantly mentioned by the committee, but if they do get in, I am sure that will be what the public will let their mind tell them....It is too early to know right now though
You know what's hypocritical. The same ppl saying Bama should be in now because they beat LSU are the people saying LSU shouldn't be in.... how then does that win get Bama in???? Dawg, help me understand that kind of logic. You're better at reading thru stuff like that than me.

Dawgilicious
02-19-2016, 04:01 PM
You know what's hypocritical. The same ppl saying Bama should be in now because they beat LSU are the people saying LSU shouldn't be in.... how then does that win get Bama in???? Dawg, help me understand that kind of logic. You're better at reading thru stuff like that than me.

haha....I try to understand certain logic, but it can be hard at times. I think the overlying point for all the bubble teams is that you can make points for them to be in and points for them to be out

kentubbybasketball
02-19-2016, 05:08 PM
Exactly with "70" spots available that's the case.

msudawg4life
02-19-2016, 05:26 PM
4life, I respect your opinion. There's a notion that I don't like when people disagree with me. You don't agree with me.

I will say this. UK has not had a game this year where everybody was able to play. There's been injuries. Cal has still got us in position to win the league. If we often give POY to a player on the best team, why doesn't the coach of the best team often win.

Cal's coaching job has been incredible. Who else lost 7 to the NBA, including the top pick. To withstand that while LSU and TAMU have great rosters and others like USC are greatly improved, is kudos to Cal.

Again, look Cal is in the HOF. Missing out on COY for one year really doesn't hurt my feelings. I don't think Cal will win it. I've said I think Frank should win it. Just because that's how it usually goes. It doesn't make it right or fair.

I think you are correct...Coach Cal HAS done an incredible job considering....BUT...and I say BUT....he puts himself in that position with the types of player he does recruit. The FACT that his team is always the favorite to win the league really does elevate what he needs to do in order to get COY year to year....so when he does have a good year and not a great year...what would be a normal shoe in for any other school/coach to win COY...it's not so much for him...I think that's a fair way to access it....I don't think the Coach that wins COY needs to be from the school that wins the league...I think if someone turns a program around or really fights through a tough year with many many injuries and pieces a team together and still accomplishes what he set out to do then he should def be considered....but Cal's cabinet is not exactly empty....not many coaches have a luxury to pull ppl 5-6 spots off their benches and not lose much. I do not think an almost .500 record(bama) in the SEC though is a reason to warrant COY in the conf..although they do have a few games yet and could go on a run in the tourney..so I'm not saying there is no chance for AJ....that's my opinion.

msudawg4life
02-19-2016, 05:31 PM
You know what's hypocritical. The same ppl saying Bama should be in now because they beat LSU are the people saying LSU shouldn't be in.... how then does that win get Bama in???? Dawg, help me understand that kind of logic. You're better at reading thru stuff like that than me.

Wouldn't that be something if MSU beats bama Saturday.....it almost happened the last meeting...if only Sword could hit a damn FT.....that would REALLY make things interesting.

kentubbybasketball
02-19-2016, 06:39 PM
I think you are correct...Coach Cal HAS done an incredible job considering....BUT...and I say BUT....he puts himself in that position with the types of player he does recruit. The FACT that his team is always the favorite to win the league really does elevate what he needs to do in order to get COY year to year....so when he does have a good year and not a great year...what would be a normal shoe in for any other school/coach to win COY...it's not so much for him...I think that's a fair way to access it....I don't think the Coach that wins COY needs to be from the school that wins the league...I think if someone turns a program around or really fights through a tough year with many many injuries and pieces a team together and still accomplishes what he set out to do then he should def be considered....but Cal's cabinet is not exactly empty....not many coaches have a luxury to pull ppl 5-6 spots off their benches and not lose much. I do not think an almost .500 record(bama) in the SEC though is a reason to warrant COY in the conf..although they do have a few games yet and could go on a run in the tourney..so I'm not saying there is no chance for AJ....that's my opinion.
But why should on court success (in particular surprises) be the main criteria for COY. Does a coach not get credit for pulling on talent
?

darthvaderbilt
02-19-2016, 10:15 PM
didn't you guys beat SC without Cal?

kentubbybasketball
02-20-2016, 09:57 AM
Not that I remember, no.

Bama_Man
02-20-2016, 01:21 PM
Yes they did DV

And no one is saying beating LSU alone puts Bama in. Its just another win over a team most had in the tourney.

If Bama gets in, it will be BC of wins like ND, SC, TAMU, UF, WSU. Not losing on the road to LSU was more important than winning at LSU if that makes sense. Can UK say they won in Baton Rouge? If I remember right, LSU won by damn near 20 points.

Injuries happen to everyone. You act as if only UK has had to dealk with them. Shannon Hale missed significant time for Alabama, Obahasahan missed time, etc.. Alabama missing Obahasahan is bigger than UK missing any one or two players BC of Alabama's talent compared to UK. UK has enough talent to survive without one starter, Bama can't without its only real threat to get to the basket.

Bama_Man
02-20-2016, 01:24 PM
Today scares me to death. MSU should have beat Alabama in the first meeting, and a loss today ends any hope Bama has at the NCAAT. If the Tide overlooks State at all, we lose and the tourney hopes are dashed.

And FWIW, I have zero qualms with Frank Martin being SEC COY. AJ has done a phenomenal job with a team picked to finish 13th out of 14 teams, but Martin has done a phenomenal job. If SC finishes strong, he should win it. If Bama does, it should go to AJ.

msudawg4life
02-21-2016, 01:50 AM
You had great reason to worry....MSU spoils another teams chances! Hail state!

kentubbybasketball
02-21-2016, 01:08 PM
4life, how do you feel about the technical foul on Isaac Humphries last night that contributed to UK's loss?

Btw, like I said earlier, who has dealt with as many injuries as Cal this year? Our three best front court players are injured/playing thru serious injuries. To me, Cal for COY is a legit thing if Frank and USC don't finish strong.

msudawg4life
02-22-2016, 11:58 AM
4life, how do you feel about the technical foul on Isaac Humphries last night that contributed to UK's loss?

Btw, like I said earlier, who has dealt with as many injuries as Cal this year? Our three best front court players are injured/playing thru serious injuries. To me, Cal for COY is a legit thing if Frank and USC don't finish strong.

that was a tough call in that spot of the game imo....I'd like to know if the call came from a ref behind the player or infront of the player. At 1st when I saw it I thought he was upset over not getting a diff call or something...but then upon watching it a few time It's more clear he was just overly excited and let it get a bit far when he spiked the basketball. At that stage of the game he should not of received a T imo but I can see where the ref may of thought his actions were for diff reasons. The refs should of done a better job getting together and clarifying it. It also did not help the game was @ A&M....lol

As far as cal goes....his stables are packed full so I have a tough time feeling much sympathy for him....but if they go on a run through the sec tourney...you have to have him up there as COY in the SEC.

kentubbybasketball
02-22-2016, 02:38 PM
that was a tough call in that spot of the game imo....I'd like to know if the call came from a ref behind the player or infront of the player. At 1st when I saw it I thought he was upset over not getting a diff call or something...but then upon watching it a few time It's more clear he was just overly excited and let it get a bit far when he spiked the basketball. At that stage of the game he should not of received a T imo but I can see where the ref may of thought his actions were for diff reasons. The refs should of done a better job getting together and clarifying it. It also did not help the game was @ A&M....lol

As far as cal goes....his stables are packed full so I have a tough time feeling much sympathy for him....but if they go on a run through the sec tourney...you have to have him up there as COY in the SEC.

The thing is the SEC sent out clarification of the refs call and mentioned a certain rule in the rulebook.... but the rule that they mentioned has nothing to do with what Humphries did.

As far as Cal goes, you guys keep saying he has "his stables packed full." But, I guess what I don't get is why that doesn't help his case even more. The job of the coach is to get players... that shouldn't cause him to be less of a candidate if he's doing that aspect of his job well.

msudawg4life
02-22-2016, 02:46 PM
The thing is the SEC sent out clarification of the refs call and mentioned a certain rule in the rulebook.... but the rule that they mentioned has nothing to do with what Humphries did.

As far as Cal goes, you guys keep saying he has "his stables packed full." But, I guess what I don't get is why that doesn't help his case even more. The job of the coach is to get players... that shouldn't cause him to be less of a candidate if he's doing that aspect of his job well.


Hey....when you have the caliber players like he has(not just starting but sitting the bench)...and you get picked to win the league...if you don't win the league or at least win the SEC tourney....you are going to have a tough time being mentioned for coy...just my two cents..


Just to clarify....what is your explanation of what he did? What did the rule say in the clarification??

kentubbybasketball
02-22-2016, 03:15 PM
Hey....when you have the caliber players like he has(not just starting but sitting the bench)...and you get picked to win the league...if you don't win the league or at least win the SEC tourney....you are going to have a tough time being mentioned for coy...just my two cents..-

What does it say about our system then that a coach who dominates recruiting (the most important aspect of the job) is never a viable candidate for COY, because he excels at the most important part of his job. Perhaps the system or typical way of doing things needs to change, because that's ridiculous.



Just to clarify....what is your explanation of what he did? What did the rule say in the clarification??

This is what the SEC says: “The official determined the Kentucky player committed an unsportsmanlike act in violation of Rule 10, Section 3, a Class A Unsporting Technical Infraction, resulting in the awarding of two free throws to Texas A&M.” Now, here's what the rule says:


* “Disrespectfully addressing an official or gesturing in such a manner as to indicate resentment.”




* “Using profanity or vulgarity; taunting, baiting or ridiculing another player or bench personnel; or pointing a finger at or making obscene gestures toward another player or bench personnel.”

kentubbybasketball
02-22-2016, 03:16 PM
If they are using that rule to defend Pat Adams, they need to call technicals for "unsportsmanlike conduct" much more often, because Humphries didn't violate anything in that rule. FWIW, everytime a Duke play slaps the floor that could be considered "taunting" or "baiting." Everytime Marcus Lee claps after he blocks a shot it could be the same thing.

People keep saying he should have been T'ed up... based off what?

msudawg4life
02-22-2016, 05:38 PM
I'm guessing the slamming of the ball that went 10 ft up into the air.....that's why I asked from where on the floor the call was made. When I first saw the replay I thought it was done out of anger..just the vibe it gave off. After watching a few more time I could tell it was just overzealous excitement that went to far....the ball may of even slipped...not sure.

Well if UK is winning the SEC then I believe he should be up there...but if they aren't then I think he lives by the sword and dies by it...recruiting 1 and done can make you or break you. Some may say it's more important to recruit a player that you can truly develop into program players who earn a degree...just playing devils advocate here. We all know Cal recruits the player who will not be around most of the time more then 2 years at most...if he didn't, he would have a tough time getting the next crop to sign year after year if they were under the impression they may not play right away or have to wait their turn. The guy is a great coach...glad he is part of the SEC...I just believe he has himself raised the bar for himself and like it or not...that's just how it's going to be.

kentubbybasketball
02-22-2016, 06:13 PM
I disagree with the notion that if our roster wasn't turning over yearly it would be tough to get the next crop. We have signed multiple five stars at the same position in multiple classes ever since Cal has been here.

I respect your opinion. Just wanted insight into how his recruiting was a drawback in determining his relevancy for COY.

msudawg4life
02-23-2016, 09:11 AM
I am def not trying to take anything away from him as a recruiter, but I feel others feel the same way about the issue. His ability to pick and choose who he wants on his team just adds to the expectations on a yearly basis IMO...is it fair to do that....IMO prob not. BUT...not much is this world IS fair..And you gotta think about it this way as well...you don't want just one coach always winning the COY in a league...at least the SEC as a conf doesn't. I'm sure the UK fans do and have ever reason and argument in the books as to why he does deserve it. This year....so far at this point I do not think he does deserve it. I've been saying all year this team doesn't have the same IT as his teams in the past have...even before the injuries.

kentubbybasketball
02-23-2016, 03:15 PM
If the best team and player and coach are on the same team every year, maybe they should win every year. We shouldn't just have somebody different because it gets boring. If Cal is owning recruiting, which is a part of the coach's yearly duties, maybe that should give him a leg up on the award is all I'm saying. If a person is a great teacher they should be rewarded for that, right. if they excel at one part of the job, it shouldn't matter. It's the same with Cal. You keep saying he's getting the best players... and he is... but that's important for anybody that wants to win COY, is it not?

msudawg4life
02-24-2016, 11:30 AM
I agree with you...if he deserves it then he should get it every year....BUT we live in a world where everyone thinks everyone should win a trophy....that carries right on up the line to things like coaching awards. I'm with you...if the man gets the best recruits...wins the most every year he's prob the best in the league. I'm more just playing devils advocate with you bro...lol. Cuz I know I can. The win over Bama this weekend was nice, especially the way they did it...looked a little more like the UK I'm used to....they have a great chance to finish out strong(Florida,Vandy,LSU...and someone else...)...and if they do..I don't see any reason why Cal would have the COY locked up.

NCMISSSTFAN
02-24-2016, 03:39 PM
Would you guys take great recruiting over mediocre coaching? (Not saying Cal is a mediocre coach). I'm just talking in general, even if you look at Howland, his bread and butter at UCLA was recruiting at one point. He got to those Final Fours with great recruiting IMO. Even though this is a down year for us you could even look at his recruiting so far at MSU and see that he can get the studs there. And IMO recruiting top players wins the games over great coaching. That's not to say coaching doesn't matter.

kentubbybasketball
02-24-2016, 07:23 PM
I agree completely NC. Everybody would take a better recruiter and imo people who say otherwise are lying. Name any coach who won anything without great players.

Bama_Man
02-24-2016, 10:31 PM
UK is by far the best team in the conference. They are peaking at the best time, and Ulis is the best PG in the nation right now. I never dreamed anyone would outplay Trimble or Page, but Ulis is straight KILLING teams right now.

Dawgilicious
02-25-2016, 11:44 AM
And Kris Dunn sits there wondering why you forgot his name....lol

GoDores
02-25-2016, 01:47 PM
I like projecting out these scenarios.
HOW THE SEC COULD END IN A 4 WAY TIE:

1. Kentucky. Currently 11-4. Remaining games: at Vanderbilt (Loss), at Florida (Loss), LSU (Win). They'd have to lose 2 out of the last 3.
2. Texas A&M. Currently 10-5. Remaining games: at Missouri (Win), at Auburn (Win), Vanderbilt (Loss). Would have to lose at home to Vandy.
3. South Carolina. Currently 10-5. Remaining games: at Miss. State (Win), Georgia (Win), at Arkansas (Loss). SC could also lose to Ms State.
4. Vanderbilt. Currently 9-6. Remaining games: Kentucky (Win), Tennessee (Win), at Texas A&M (Win). 2 tough games against UK and @ A&M.


The tiebreaker is head to head between all teams involved:
Kentucky 2-2
Vandy 3-2
SC 2-1
A&M 1-3

I think in that scenario, SC would claim the tiebreaker. Based on a better winning percentage than Vandy, even though they played 2 less of the teams.

If SC drops games at State and at Ark, and there's a 3 way tie between Kentucky, A&M, and Vandy. Vandy would have the tiebreaker in the above scenario.

Vandy 3-1
A&M 1-2
Kentucky 1-2

It could be an interesting last 3 games.

kentubbybasketball
02-25-2016, 03:28 PM
Tyler Ulis is the SEC Player of the Year no doubt. He's probably First or at worst Second Team All-American. I don't even know if there's ever been a shorter SEC POY, but don't tell Tyler that. That would tick him off. What a player though.

Cal basically told us he's leaving on Tuesday night. He's on pace to break John Wall assist record at UK... now that's saying something.

It would be weird that in the year UK has a player that wins SEC POY, we actually don't win Freshmen of the Year. Plus, it would be the first year we've won back to back SEC titles under Cal (since Tubby was here). Odd things happening this year.

kentubbybasketball
02-25-2016, 03:30 PM
UK is by far the best team in the conference. They are peaking at the best time, and Ulis is the best PG in the nation right now. I never dreamed anyone would outplay Trimble or Page, but Ulis is straight KILLING teams right now.

I agree. It's crazy that on the road, Texas A&M needed controversy, Derek Willis leaving the game, and other things to beat us. We, like Michigan State, usually are playing our best this time of the year.

Ultimately, people say playing Vandy, Florida, and LSU will be tough. Perhaps it will be. All I know is teams have to beat us too. It'll be tough to beat us too. We had 3 turnovers vs Bama, although the official stats say four.

Bama_Man
02-25-2016, 04:41 PM
And Kris Dunn sits there wondering why you forgot his name....lol

Dunn has more NBA potential, but ATT, his stat line doesn't impress me like a Ulis or Trimble, he is only averaging two more APG than turnovers per game IIRC. Ulis and Dunn both average around 17 ppg, but Ulis gets 7 APG vs less than two turnovers per game (1.9).

Bama_Man
02-25-2016, 04:45 PM
I agree. It's crazy that on the road, Texas A&M needed controversy, Derek Willis leaving the game, and other things to beat us. We, like Michigan State, usually are playing our best this time of the year.

Ultimately, people say playing Vandy, Florida, and LSU will be tough. Perhaps it will be. All I know is teams have to beat us too. It'll be tough to beat us too. We had 3 turnovers vs Bama, although the official stats say four.

Alabama had no shot at beating UK with 10-12 turnovers, there's no way a decent team like Bama, with very little inside offense and only one rebounder in the games at any time usually, can beat them when they only turn it over three times in a game. UK has the talent to make a deep run, and we've seen that a great guard can carry a team into April (Kemba Walker, Shabazz Napier, etc..)

Dawgilicious
02-25-2016, 04:56 PM
Dunn has more NBA potential, but ATT, his stat line doesn't impress me like a Ulis or Trimble, he is only averaging two more APG than turnovers per game IIRC. Ulis and Dunn both average around 17 ppg, but Ulis gets 7 APG vs less than two turnovers per game (1.9).

Dunn also isn't playing with elite talent....lol....He has struggled a bit lately, but he also got hurt so he is dealing with that. Trimble's numbers are down this year so he isn't really in the argument for best PG on the season.

kentubbybasketball
02-25-2016, 06:17 PM
So, you're suggesting that Dunn doesn't have better targets than Ulis? I'd imagine Tyler Ulis would love playing with Ben Bentil. Let's not act like Providence has a bunch of nobodies besides Kris Dunn. Kris Dunn has always been a turnover machine, he had ten in a game against UK last year FWIW... that suggests that perhaps he's part of the problem and not just his teammates. Dunn has as many first rounders on his team as Ulis has on his. Otherwise, I'm not sure how else you're measuring "elite talent" as you put it. Certainly it shouldn't be by the amount of stars somebody gave them out of high school, because if that's the case, Ulis should have been a top 10 recruit given his production now... in a big man's game.

Ultimately though, it is interesting that the argument is "Point Guard A has better talent around him than Point Guard B." The mark of the great point guards is they make the others around them play better than they actually are (a la Steve Nash or Trey Burke at Michigan a few years ago). I gotta admit Tyler Ulis has made Jamal Murray, Derek Willis, and those guys much better than they actually are. From the mouth of Derek Willis two weeks ago: "We (UK) would not have a team without Tyler Ulis. We would not be top 25." Just sayin'.

Bama_Man
02-25-2016, 08:59 PM
Dunn also isn't playing with elite talent....lol....He has struggled a bit lately, but he also got hurt so he is dealing with that. Trimble's numbers are down this year so he isn't really in the argument for best PG on the season.

I'll never slide Trimble out of the discussion, his talent and ability will keep him near the top of the list.

If Dunn's teammates were that bad (they aren't), then he would be shooting more and scoring more. But even if you want to excuse assists, Ulis averages two less turnovers per game. That's 70 less turnovers over the course of a season, that's a significant number. And when both players are so close in almost every other metric, that has to be a huge sticking point when comparing the two.

Dawgilicious
02-26-2016, 08:19 AM
I didnt say they were that bad, but he isn't floored with tons of McD AA's either. Providence has struggled recently as a team and thus his numbers have fallen off. They are different players. Ulis can affect the game in a bigger way by not scoring and he a leadership capability that is not matched by many people in the college game. Dunn is one of the best on ball defenders in the college game and can do a plethora of things on the offensive end of the floor. Dunn has to dominate the ball and Ulis doesn't have to do that. Jamal Murray is a nice #2 to have on your team for sure. I would anticipate Ulis to win the Cousy award, but there are a lot of qualified guys in the running from Cat Barber to FVV

kentubbybasketball
02-26-2016, 02:04 PM
Dawg, fwiw, our no. 2 handler is Bruscoe, not Murray. End of the day, McD AAs don't guarantee you have elite talent. How many does Oklahoma have? You wouldn't argue their roster is worse than say LSU would you and LSU has multiple guys from McDonalds. Providence has talent and is underachieving. UK, with Ulis at the helm, has overachieved. We have five star guys but no back to the basket presence, no rim protector. To me that's a lazy way of analyzing how much talent a team has. No offense. I just disagree with you here.

Dawgilicious
02-26-2016, 02:30 PM
Dawg, fwiw, our no. 2 handler is Bruscoe, not Murray. End of the day, McD AAs don't guarantee you have elite talent. How many does Oklahoma have? You wouldn't argue their roster is worse than say LSU would you and LSU has multiple guys from McDonalds. Providence has talent and is underachieving. UK, with Ulis at the helm, has overachieved. We have five star guys but no back to the basket presence, no rim protector. To me that's a lazy way of analyzing how much talent a team has. No offense. I just disagree with you here.

Oh yeah, of course. I was just referring to the point that Murray handles to ball on a lot of the offensive possessions. It is pretty apparent to see that Ulis' value goes well beyond how many pts he scores. He adds things that you can't put in a box score

Bama_Man
02-27-2016, 02:33 PM
Oh yeah, of course. I was just referring to the point that Murray handles to ball on a lot of the offensive possessions. It is pretty apparent to see that Ulis' value goes well beyond how many pts he scores. He adds things that you can't put in a box score

And his size makes it that much more impressive. Dunn has great size, he is going to be a star at the NBA level, he reminds me of Russell Westbrook to some extent. Dunn is a much better shooter, but Russ is way more athletic. They are both tough on ball defenders, Dunn uses his size very well and has great feet. There's a lot of good PGs, but there are only a few great ones, and Ulis, Dunn, Trimble, Marcus Page, Demetrious Jackson, Van Fleet, Ryan Arcidiago, Yogi Ferrell etc are all debated, but I think the top four of Ulis/Dunn/Page/Trimble have separated themselves.

Bama_Man
02-27-2016, 09:02 PM
Alabama got back on track today, beating AU. The MSU loss was huge, but I guess there's still a possibility of the tourney, still 45 in RPI with as many top 50 RPI wins as Vandy (five; ND, WSU, Florida, SC, TAMU) and both teams have 11 losses. Vandy has the better conference record, Bama had the tougher SOS. I'd have Vandy in and Bama out at this point, but who knows how the season ends. But Retin Obasohan deserves some All-SEC love, without him Alabama would be horrendous.

kentubbybasketball
02-28-2016, 01:12 PM
Can we just stop to talk about how great Tubby has done with this Texas Tech team with no ranked players and taking over a program with 3 head coaches the three previous years. We are not even on the bubble and it feels good to be mad about losing at Kansas. Our program would perhaps win the SEC this year.

Bama_Man
02-28-2016, 01:39 PM
Can we just stop to talk about how great Tubby has done with this Texas Tech team with no ranked players and taking over a program with 3 head coaches the three previous years. We are not even on the bubble and it feels good to be mad about losing at Kansas. Our program would perhaps win the SEC this year.

I don't believe TT wins the SEC, but they have had a great season and should make the NCAAT. The B12 is so far ahead of the other conferences, fifth place in that conference is like second or third in the SEC/P12. I believe UK/VU/TAMU are all slightly better than TT, so they would be in the mix but finish second or third.

joehogjoe
02-28-2016, 02:58 PM
Arkansas is better than TT. Or we were on the day we played.

joehogjoe
02-28-2016, 03:01 PM
UK is by far the best team in the conference. They are peaking at the best time, and Ulis is the best PG in the nation right now. I never dreamed anyone would outplay Trimble or Page, but Ulis is straight KILLING teams right now.

Msrt talented but not the best team. It will be interesting the last two regular season games. The tourney should be wide open.

kentubbybasketball
02-28-2016, 03:44 PM
I don't believe TT wins the SEC, but they have had a great season and should make the NCAAT. The B12 is so far ahead of the other conferences, fifth place in that conference is like second or third in the SEC/P12. I believe UK/VU/TAMU are all slightly better than TT, so they would be in the mix but finish second or third.

Having watched UK and Tech more than probably anybody, I stand by my statement. Tech would likely win the SEC. Some match up it will be whenTubby comes home and plays against UK and gets his jersey retired!

MKfromPA
02-28-2016, 03:53 PM
Can we just stop to talk about how great Tubby has done with this Texas Tech team with no ranked players and taking over a program with 3 head coaches the three previous years. We are not even on the bubble and it feels good to be mad about losing at Kansas. Our program would perhaps win the SEC this year.

Tip my cap to TT and Tubby. Excellent regular season, to date & a MM bid likely to surface. Be proud, KT, and don't let anyone else tell you otherwise! :grad:

joehogjoe
02-28-2016, 05:10 PM
Having watched UK and Tech more than probably anybody, I stand by my statement. Tech would likely win the SEC. Some match up it will be whenTubby comes home and plays against UK and gets his jersey retired!Really the 7th best team in B12 would win the SEC? A&M would destroy them. UK would destroy them. A Healthy Vandy would too.

kentubbybasketball
02-28-2016, 06:39 PM
Tip my cap to TT and Tubby. Excellent regular season, to date & a MM bid likely to surface. Be proud, KT, and don't let anyone else tell you otherwise! :grad:
Love you bro. You know I won't let the haters steal my joy. I think our loss to yall in OT really was good for us. We've been on a tear. Wins over potential final four squads. The future is only bright for us. Our class for next year will bring more size that we need especially with Odiase out.

Let's talk the Hogs. What's going on this year with them.

By the way I'm glad yall took it to Duke today. Thought about my buddy MK. I know you were geeked!

darthvaderbilt
02-28-2016, 08:35 PM
what do you think about Stallings coaching?

kentubbybasketball
02-28-2016, 11:35 PM
I honestly wonder if he should have gotten more out of the regular season, but as usual he was solid; not terrible, not great. With the improved coaching names and recruiting in this league, Stallings' window to win an SEC title could be closing.

msudawg4life
02-29-2016, 09:06 AM
Closing fast at that...especially with other teams in the SEC trending back up

kentubbybasketball
02-29-2016, 02:43 PM
Vandy's in the same spot that MSU was in back in 2012 with Stans. I mean, you could push Stallings out, but chances are, you're not going to get anybody much better. On the other side, you might have the occasional great year; maybe even a Sweet 16/Final 4 type year, but it won't be a consistent tourney team from year to year under Stallings IMO. To vandy's credit, they are smart enough to stick with Stallings; however, it'll be four straight years without an NCAAT bid if they don't make it this year.

msudawg4life
02-29-2016, 02:59 PM
I was just saying I agree his chances are getting slimmer....especially with other teams trending back upward. I also agree...I don't think they do better then what they have right now. I wish MSU had stuck with Rick.....at least gave him another year to try to fix some of the crap he broke...lmao.

kentubbybasketball
02-29-2016, 03:05 PM
What's really the word on Rick. Was he really fired?

Bama_Man
02-29-2016, 05:20 PM
Msrt talented but not the best team. It will be interesting the last two regular season games. The tourney should be wide open.

Who's better? TAMU has fallen off a cliff, UF doesn't look great, Vandy is the only real threat to them right now.

And I really don't believe TT could come in and unseat UK and win consistently in places like Gainesville or Nashville or even Starkville. Playing in the B12 is a murderers row but the SEC isn't bad at all this year. Five tourney teams (UK, VU, USC, TAMU, UF) and two more that could've made tourney and will likely play in NIT (UA, LSU) and the bottom of conference is much better than most other bottoms wit UT, MSU, and Auburn being capable of beating very good teams.

Bama_Man
02-29-2016, 05:23 PM
And i agree with KT on Stallings, Vandy would vbe fools to run him off now. He can still bring in great players and has a very young Vandy team in e hunt for a conference title and NCAA bid. Unless you knew for sure you could land an elite coach (UK letting Gillispe go for Cal, Texas landing Smart after letting Barnes go, Guthrie getting axed at UNC for Roy, etc..), pushing out a good one for the unknown is not smart. Bama is just NOW recovering for letting Gottfried go years ago, even tho we felt that Grant was a great coach but he just couldn't do the job.

kentubbybasketball
02-29-2016, 06:48 PM
UNC is a bad example. They didn't fire Guthridge for one, plus he had 2 final fours in 3 years. They thought they had Roy and he passed to stay at Kansas. Matt Doherty came and that was a disaster for them, other than he recruited the stars on the 2005 title team.

As for Tech, given that Tubby owned the league at UGA and UK, I'm not sure why he with UK wouldn't still wouldn't do well.

Bama_Man
02-29-2016, 09:34 PM
UNC is a bad example. They didn't fire Guthridge for one, plus he had 2 final fours in 3 years. They thought they had Roy and he passed to stay at Kansas. Matt Doherty came and that was a disaster for them, other than he recruited the stars on the 2005 title team.

As for Tech, given that Tubby owned the league at UGA and UK, I'm not sure why he with UK wouldn't still wouldn't do well.

Was Doherty right before Roy? That's who I meant.

So, even tho the SEC has added coaches with Final Four and NBA Finals appearces, Tubby would dominate? I doubt that.
And you just threw shade at your own school. If TS was going to dominate the SEC, that includes Kentucky. Are you saying Tubby is a better coach than Cal?

kentubbybasketball
03-01-2016, 06:43 AM
I'm not sure where I threw shade at UK. Have you never seen two schools dominate a league (Florida, Kentucky anyone?). I've been clear for years that Tubby and Cal, Cal and Tubby, are the two best coaches in the country in my opinion. Nobody has the reputation of coaching defense as well as Tubby. Nobody else has an am Olympic gold medal. I'm sure he'd do fine beating the Averys, Howlands, and Pearls of the world. Fwiw, Bill Self, who has been a successor to Tubby before, called Tubby an "icon" last week. Who else in the SEC, besides Cal is going to get that kind of respect from a coaching legend?

Dawgilicious
03-01-2016, 09:31 AM
Who's better? TAMU has fallen off a cliff, UF doesn't look great, Vandy is the only real threat to them right now.

And I really don't believe TT could come in and unseat UK and win consistently in places like Gainesville or Nashville or even Starkville. Playing in the B12 is a murderers row but the SEC isn't bad at all this year. Five tourney teams (UK, VU, USC, TAMU, UF) and two more that could've made tourney and will likely play in NIT (UA, LSU) and the bottom of conference is much better than most other bottoms wit UT, MSU, and Auburn being capable of beating very good teams.

UF is no lock to make the tourney right now. Sitting at 17-12 and not looking good at all. They need wins and fast

GoDores
03-01-2016, 12:43 PM
I get what yall are saying about running Stalling's off, but IF Vandy were to miss the NCAA tourney this year, it's a realistic option. Stallings got a free pass for 2 seasons after the SEC championship in 2012. Everyone could see we were building for this year, but it really hasn't panned out yet. We look to be on the right path, but March is going to be huge for the program. Just making the NCAA and losing first round would have Stallings on the hot seat and force David Williams to make a decision.

This is obviously not a provable fact but I'll say it like it is: Vandy's next coach is in training at VCU. Will Wade. It would be nice to get maybe 2 or so more years out of Stallings just to get more of a body of work on Wade.

kentubbybasketball
03-01-2016, 02:38 PM
Dump Stallings for Will Wade? That's akin to firing Gottfried for Grant. Might as well keep who you have IMO. 17 years at one place is a long time. I could understand the reason for letting Stallings go, but I think it would be a bad decision.

kentubbybasketball
03-01-2016, 02:45 PM
The SEC (at least part of it) championship could be decided tonight. If either TAMU or UK loses, the other will earn at least a share of the SEC title. I think it would be appropriate to be co-champs. It was UK's title to lose to start the season. TAMU got out to a great start and was 3 games ahead of everybody and then floundered, which opened it back up for UK. Crazy how controversy played a part in that game between the two of us. We would have had the SEC locked up if the refs wouldn't have abused their power in calling a phantom technical on Humphries for spiking the ball.... WHICH IS NOT A VIOLATION OF ANY RULE IN THE RULEBOOK.

darthvaderbilt
03-01-2016, 03:12 PM
did KYjelly fire Tubby?

Bama_Man
03-01-2016, 04:14 PM
I'm not sure where I threw shade at UK. Have you never seen two schools dominate a league (Florida, Kentucky anyone?). I've been clear for years that Tubby and Cal, Cal and Tubby, are the two best coaches in the country in my opinion. Nobody has the reputation of coaching defense as well as Tubby. Nobody else has an am Olympic gold medal. I'm sure he'd do fine beating the Averys, Howlands, and Pearls of the world. Fwiw, Bill Self, who has been a successor to Tubby before, called Tubby an "icon" last week. Who else in the SEC, besides Cal is going to get that kind of respect from a coaching legend?

Um, Coach K has two Olympic golds, your info is wrong.

And do you seriously believe Tubby Smith is a better coach than Coach K, who has won five national titles? Roy Williams and Rick Pitino, both wit two? That's insane man. And using a quote a coach said about a coach he worked under isn't quite getting an unbiased opinion.

Dawgilicious
03-01-2016, 04:59 PM
Bama, did you see where Terrance Ferguson decommited from Bama?

kentubbybasketball
03-01-2016, 08:02 PM
Um, Coach K has two Olympic golds, your info is wrong.

And do you seriously believe Tubby Smith is a better coach than Coach K, who has won five national titles? Roy Williams and Rick Pitino, both wit two? That's insane man. And using a quote a coach said about a coach he worked under isn't quite getting an unbiased opinion.

A few things:
-with all due respect, I can't keep up with what you're talking about. What does Coach K have to do talking about Tubby's gold medal? Clearly, the point of contention is the SEC. I didn't see the memo that K moved to the SEC. By the way, get it right, Coach K has more than 2 gold medals. He won with the Dream Team also. So, no my info isn't wrong Tubby has an Olympic gold medal and nobody else has one...in the SEC, which is what we were talking about, right?

-When did Bill Self ever work under Tubby? Seeing as how that never happened, I don't even follow your point.

-Last, if I said I think Cal and Tubby are the two best coaches in the country, I think that implies I think both are better than Coach K. I'm not sure how else to clearly answer that question. I don't look at just wins and stuff. I'm not trying to get you to agree with my opinion, and you shouldn't try to get me to agree with yours, because it won't happen. BTW, Coach K is a great coach. I'm not sure where anybody ever said otherwise. One of the best of all-time IMO. As Roy always says when he won his first title, he didn't become a better coach within the 40 minute game where he won his title. Listing titles doesn't mean much to me. I guess we'd argue that Kevin Ollie is equal with Larry Brown with that logic.

kentubbybasketball
03-01-2016, 09:20 PM
Auburn should do UK a favor and beat TAMU tonight. It would get us at least a share of the title with a chance to win outright on Saturday vs LSU

GoDores
03-02-2016, 03:46 PM
Kentucky beating Florida ended any chance Vandy had at getting the #1 seed.

For Vandy (barring any huge upsets), it looks like if they beat A&M, they'll get the #2 seed. If they lose to A&M, they'll get the #5 seed. Big difference. But either way, it looks like we should be in different sessions than Kentucky so cheaper tickets! :towel:

Bama_Man
03-02-2016, 04:08 PM
A few things:
-with all due respect, I can't keep up with what you're talking about. What does Coach K have to do talking about Tubby's gold medal? Clearly, the point of contention is the SEC. I didn't see the memo that K moved to the SEC. By the way, get it right, Coach K has more than 2 gold medals. He won with the Dream Team also. So, no my info isn't wrong Tubby has an Olympic gold medal and nobody else has one...in the SEC, which is what we were talking about, right?

-When did Bill Self ever work under Tubby? Seeing as how that never happened, I don't even follow your point.

-Last, if I said I think Cal and Tubby are the two best coaches in the country, I think that implies I think both are better than Coach K. I'm not sure how else to clearly answer that question. I don't look at just wins and stuff. I'm not trying to get you to agree with my opinion, and you shouldn't try to get me to agree with yours, because it won't happen. BTW, Coach K is a great coach. I'm not sure where anybody ever said otherwise. One of the best of all-time IMO. As Roy always says when he won his first title, he didn't become a better coach within the 40 minute game where he won his title. Listing titles doesn't mean much to me. I guess we'd argue that Kevin Ollie is equal with Larry Brown with that logic.

Um, you didn't say Tubby had a gold medal and no one else in the SEC does, you simply said Tubby had one and no one else does. When you say no one else does, it sounds like you didn't realize other coaches had won medals. And Coach K has won two gold medal as a head coach. How many does Tubby have as a head coach?

I get that everyone has an opinion, but as someone who prides himself on really knowing basketball, saying Tubby Smith is a better coach than all time greats like K is counter intuitive. Tubby has five major conference titles, one FF, and one title. And he coached at one of the top three basketball schools in the nation. Every coach that spent significant time at UK after the 80s won a national title. Pitino won a national title at UK, but also made two other FFs, and we know Cals accomplishments. I just can't wrap my head around someone who knows so much about the sport having in such a crazy opinion, but its your opinion and you are certainly entitled to that.


And Dawg, fuc k yes I saw that :( I don't get why, its clear AJ has the program trending upward, but Bama has talent on the roster and will surely bring in great recruits. Its not like Bama has a great track record with great recruits, we know how Devonta Pollard played out, even if he was just an innocent bystander in his moms mess.

kentubbybasketball
03-02-2016, 07:18 PM
Again, we're we were talking about Tubby dominating the SEC. Doesn't take hooked on phonics to realize that. Clearly I was talking about SEC coaches then. Look I can tell you what coaches have won th e Olympics and men's and women's basketball very far back because I've studied it. I don't need your tutorial.

since we're asking questions, who else has a gold medal? You've yet to tell me who else has won a gold medal in the SEC.
....

Crickets.

By the way, my time here speaks for itself. I'm comfortable in the knowledge of basketball thay I have. I'm not trying to impress you. Thats not to sound arrogant either. My opinion is just that: MY opinion. I've tried to get along with you this past week but you're so juvenile and petty. I'm done with this. You can have the last word you desire.

kentubbybasketball
03-02-2016, 07:18 PM
Kentucky beating Florida ended any chance Vandy had at getting the #1 seed.

For Vandy (barring any huge upsets), it looks like if they beat A&M, they'll get the #2 seed. If they lose to A&M, they'll get the #5 seed. Big difference. But either way, it looks like we should be in different sessions than Kentucky so cheaper tickets! :towel:

Nashville is our city when it comes to SECT time!!! Lol

To me the bigger deal is getting the bye with the 2 vs 5 seed. That's huge for a team like Vandy that is only playing a few guys although yall can go pretty deep.

Dawgilicious
03-03-2016, 08:26 AM
I think Bama can start playing towards the NIT now with that loss last night. Can easily see Florida being left out too

kentubbybasketball
03-03-2016, 12:10 PM
Wonder who Dick Vitale says should be COY now.... not Avery. Give it to Cal or Billy Kennedy. If Tyler Ulis is the best option for POY because he's on one of the two best teams, shouldnt it work the same with the coach. The job Cal has done is nothing short of amazing. We have lost 7 guys to th NBA, never had a full roster for any games in conference, and still have a chance to win the league. Kennedy's team had a rough patch but he deserves it for rebuilding TAMU over the course of four years.

Coach: Cal
Player: Tyler Ulis (shortest guy ever to win?)
FOY: Ben Simmons although Jamal Murray was better in conference
Defender: Tyler Ulis or maybe even Luke Kornet with all the blocks

GoDores
03-03-2016, 02:24 PM
Helpful chart here makings its way around boards. Shows the seeding scenarios

http://i67.tinypic.com/21j9b43.png

Bama_Man
03-03-2016, 03:14 PM
Again, we're we were talking about Tubby dominating the SEC. Doesn't take hooked on phonics to realize that. Clearly I was talking about SEC coaches then. Look I can tell you what coaches have won th e Olympics and men's and women's basketball very far back because I've studied it. I don't need your tutorial.

since we're asking questions, who else has a gold medal? You've yet to tell me who else has won a gold medal in the SEC.
....

Crickets.

By the way, my time here speaks for itself. I'm comfortable in the knowledge of basketball thay I have. I'm not trying to impress you. Thats not to sound arrogant either. My opinion is just that: MY opinion. I've tried to get along with you this past week but you're so juvenile and petty. I'm done with this. You can have the last word you desire.

Wtf? I was nice to you, I tried really hard to be nice but you have the thinnest skin in the world. If you were sooo comfortable with your opinion, you could take someone disagreeing and not go running away crying.
Are you threatened because I know basketball as well and aren't afraid to challenge your almighty opinions??

And you're right, no SEC coach rode someone else's coattails to a Gold medal. Forget the Final Four appearances, NBA COY awards, national titles, Hall of Fame recognition, conference titles, being an assistant coach and winning a Gold with Ray Allen, VC, KG, Kidd, Payton, outweighs all that.


LOL yeah right, whatever you say, basketball messiah.

kentubbybasketball
03-03-2016, 04:04 PM
Helpful chart here makings its way around boards. Shows the seeding scenarios

http://i67.tinypic.com/21j9b43.png

Sure, beats how it's been 3 out of the last 4 years when UF and UK had unbeaten SEC seasons if you're a fan of close finishes.

GoDores
03-03-2016, 04:23 PM
I can't believe Vandy could finish one game back of an SEC championship and most Vandy fans would consider their season disappointing so far, including me.

kentubbybasketball
03-03-2016, 04:39 PM
Not surprising to me. Many people predicted Vandy to be a final four team, which technically still could happen, but most final four teams aren't 6 or 7 loss teams in a weak league like the SEC, so I can see the disappointment. It's the same with UK. We are likely going to be at worst SEC co-champs unless LSU beats us Saturday, but people are disappointed. I get it.

kentubbybasketball
03-06-2016, 04:34 PM
Tubby wins Big 12 Coach of the Year in what was a clear decision. As I was saying....