Ben Howland Mississippi State new Head Coach [Archive] - SEC Sports Forum | SEC Basketball | SEC Football

PDA

View Full Version : Ben Howland Mississippi State new Head Coach



NCMISSSTFAN
03-23-2015, 11:59 AM
I didn't see that one coming.

http://www.clarionledger.com/story/kellenberger/2015/03/23/report-ben-howland-mississippi-state-coach/70321970/

NCMISSSTFAN
03-23-2015, 11:59 AM
I'm suprised we got him, thats a pretty big name coming to Starkville.

Herchel
03-23-2015, 12:02 PM
That was fast. Why did UCLA fire him?

Bama_Man
03-23-2015, 12:21 PM
This did not help, to go with the under performing in the NCAAT in the last few Howland years:

http://www.si.com/college-basketball/2013/03/25/ucla-ben-howland

NCMISSSTFAN
03-23-2015, 12:31 PM
He has put alot of players in the NBA, most recently guys like Kevin Love, Russell Westbrook and Darren Collison. That will be a great recruiting pitch to players

GoDores
03-23-2015, 12:41 PM
Seems like a lot on here were confused/surprised by the firing of Ray because he didn't get enough time given the clean up he had to do. I wonder if State only made the move because they knew they had Howland? That was a pretty quick hire.

Bama_Man
03-23-2015, 02:30 PM
He has put alot of players in the NBA, most recently guys like Kevin Love, Russell Westbrook and Darren Collison. That will be a great recruiting pitch to players


The opposite side of that is that while at UCLA, he landed elite, top shelf talent and never won an NCAA title. His teams were loaded and never won it all. After 08, Howland never won a tournament game and failed to make the NCAAT twice. During that time period, he had Kevin Love, and three times as a 1 or 2-seed failed to win more than one NCAAT game.

kentubbybasketball
03-23-2015, 03:23 PM
Seems like a lot on here were confused/surprised by the firing of Ray because he didn't get enough time given the clean up he had to do. I wonder if State only made the move because they knew they had Howland? That was a pretty quick hire.

First time I've ever said this, but I agree completely with you. I think it's sad. I get why coaches are hired and fired, but this is pathetic on MSU's part. PATHETIC! You fire Stansbury, because he has no discipline (yet he wins). You fire Ray, because he doesn't win (but he has discipline). You hire Howland, who is worse than Stansbury when it comes to discipline. Why not keep Stansbury in the first place? I guess winning is the #1 deal at MSU, which it is everywhere, but you can't bemoan what Stansbury ever did there after this hire.

Congratulations I guess, but I don't see this completely working out. Not only will this be a major adjustment for him due to the geography, but I'd like to see if he controls players better there than he did at UCLA. The style of ball will be pretty similar to Ray's BTW in that MSU will be a halfcourt type team under Howland. Even with some of his athletes at UCLA, he still never ran up the pace like it would have been advantageous to do.

NCMISSSTFAN
03-23-2015, 03:46 PM
Truth be told I'm not sure how I feel about the hire just yet. And I hope Ray didn't lose his job because of Howland, but it does kinda seem like Howland being hired so fast did have something to do with it.

kentubbybasketball
03-23-2015, 03:48 PM
Looking back on it, maybe that was a bit harsh. To me though, it seems a bit unfair. Life is not always fair. Howland better win, otherwise, I'd imagine it would be more than just the coach fired this time. Getting Korey McCray on staff would help with recruiting. That's how Tony Parker left Georgia for UCLA to begin with.

joehogjoe
03-23-2015, 04:22 PM
Cool beans. Bet W&D is freaking out.

SkyAntoine
03-23-2015, 04:56 PM
Shouldn't have fired Stansbury...a Kentucky boy.

msudawg4life
03-23-2015, 05:20 PM
Ray was way over his head from the get go...the guy was not ready for the SEC.....just my opinion...Good guy...but never got full potential out of any of his players. I think MSU knew things under Ray would not improve enough to satisfy what they were looking for. So why drag your feet and let the guy stay another year if you already have your minds made up. I'm ready to see a FULL HUMP and some W's again in Starkville....no chance in HELL Ray ever was going to do that....FACT!

Bama_Man
03-23-2015, 05:48 PM
Be prepared for some boring ass basketball, Howland was boring at UCLA with elite talent like KT said that should have been running up and down the court. Imagine what he will do with inferior talent, no shot at Miss. State, hiring Howland is a big name hire, but the talent you get at MSU is not as good as the talent you get at UCLA.

kentubbybasketball
03-23-2015, 07:01 PM
Ray was way over his head from the get go...the guy was not ready for the SEC.....just my opinion...Good guy...but never got full potential out of any of his players. I think MSU knew things under Ray would not improve enough to satisfy what they were looking for. So why drag your feet and let the guy stay another year if you already have your minds made up. I'm ready to see a FULL HUMP and some W's again in Starkville....no chance in HELL Ray ever was going to do that....FACT!


Cool. Fire the guy after his second year then. Surely, you didn't learn anything new this year that you didn't already know about Ray's aptitude. Fire him right after the season is over. MSU waited almost two weeks after the season was over. Did it really take two weeks to figure out Ray wasn't the guy? No, you (the MSU brass) just found out Howland was interested and you ran with it.

Also, Howland isn't a guarantee to win either. I don't see MSU being better than Kentucky or Florida* consistently. Auburn will be better. USC is on the uptick. TAMU's recruiting is off the charts. Who knows who Bama hires?

*The Billy D to the NBA rumors are really coming up. Even the Orlando Magic job.

GDawg88
03-23-2015, 07:17 PM
What a great hire for MSU. Howland's run at UCLA ended on a sour note, but that's a high-pressure job that tends to wear coaches down. He did take that program to the Final Four three years in a row, so he was hardly a miserable failure.

I'd look more at what Howland did at Pitt, which I think is a fairly comparable job to MSU.

GDawg88
03-23-2015, 07:22 PM
How many other coaches could MSU have gotten who have been to three Final Fours? I mean, damn, were you guys expecting them to get Coach K? Howland may not be perfect, but this is a slam-dunk hire for a historically middle-of-the-pack program.

CentralMSDawg
03-23-2015, 07:29 PM
Be prepared for some boring ass basketball, Howland was boring at UCLA with elite talent like KT said that should have been running up and down the court. Imagine what he will do with inferior talent, no shot at Miss. State, hiring Howland is a big name hire, but the talent you get at MSU is not as good as the talent you get at UCLA.

If boring gets us anywhere near a final four I'll take it. As for talent in Starkville we have gotten some really good players in the past and we have better facilities now than in most of Stansbury's years. My only concern is if Howland still has the fire to build a perennial winner. If so then MSU should be the fourth school he takes to the tournament.

CentralMSDawg
03-23-2015, 07:42 PM
Cool. Fire the guy after his second year then. Surely, you didn't learn anything new this year that you didn't already know about Ray's aptitude. Fire him right after the season is over. MSU waited almost two weeks after the season was over. Did it really take two weeks to figure out Ray wasn't the guy? No, you (the MSU brass) just found out Howland was interested and you ran with it.

Also, Howland isn't a guarantee to win either. I don't see MSU being better than Kentucky or Florida* consistently. Auburn will be better. USC is on the uptick. TAMU's recruiting is off the charts. Who knows who Bama hires?

*The Billy D to the NBA rumors are really coming up. Even the Orlando Magic job.

The other schools you mentioned being on the rise is one of the reasons this move was made. Ray is a super nice guy, but we just were never going higher than the NIT with him. Stricklin saw this or was perhaps told by the MSU president and made the move for Howland.

As for competing with UK and UF we did many seasons for about 10 years in a row. We usually came out on the losing end, but we competed and averaged third in wins during that 10 year stretch. No one will be able to compete with UK year end and year out, but can and have competed for SEC titles. If this thing works out with Howland there is no reason we can't compete again.

Bama_Man
03-23-2015, 08:00 PM
Alabama was also a major player in those times, the Gottfried early years. But that was a long time ago, and really neither Bama or MSU are in great shape right now.

Alabama made the tourney in 2013 before losing to Creighton, so its not as if Grant sucks, I am worried we will have a hard time getting a big name.

But sometimes, a small name with a chip on his shoulder can be a better hire than a coach like Howland who may not be as motivated as he was at Pitt or early UCLA.

I still dont think Howland's time at Pitt is equal to MSU, Pitt has a great locale for recruits and is a basketball school. At State, basketball could be argued, as of now, as the third best big three sport for the Bulldogs with the footballl success and the very good baseball program.
At Pitt and UCLA, his programs were the top dogs at the school.

kentubbybasketball
03-23-2015, 08:44 PM
The other schools you mentioned being on the rise is one of the reasons this move was made. Ray is a super nice guy, but we just were never going higher than the NIT with him. Stricklin saw this or was perhaps told by the MSU president and made the move for Howland.

As for competing with UK and UF we did many seasons for about 10 years in a row. We usually came out on the losing end, but we competed and averaged third in wins during that 10 year stretch. No one will be able to compete with UK year end and year out, but can and have competed for SEC titles. If this thing works out with Howland there is no reason we can't compete again.

Sure, but if that 10 years was so good, why did Stansbury get fired? If it's for off-court player issues, again, I ask, have you read Howland's rap sheet. That UCLA expose in Sport's Illustrated is much worse than Elgin Bailey fighting in the stands.

If it's about winning, I guess you do what you can within legalities and reason. I'm not saying Howland won't do well, but the SEC is much tougher than it was in the 2000s.

GDawg88
03-23-2015, 10:11 PM
Alabama was also a major player in those times, the Gottfried early years. But that was a long time ago, and really neither Bama or MSU are in great shape right now.

Alabama made the tourney in 2013 before losing to Creighton, so its not as if Grant sucks, I am worried we will have a hard time getting a big name.

But sometimes, a small name with a chip on his shoulder can be a better hire than a coach like Howland who may not be as motivated as he was at Pitt or early UCLA.

I still dont think Howland's time at Pitt is equal to MSU, Pitt has a great locale for recruits and is a basketball school. At State, basketball could be argued, as of now, as the third best big three sport for the Bulldogs with the footballl success and the very good baseball program.
At Pitt and UCLA, his programs were the top dogs at the school.
Pitt wasn't really a basketball school when Howland got there. He made it into one.

kentubbybasketball
03-23-2015, 10:15 PM
I disagree. Cal won at Pitt under Evans. Ralph Willard did decent too. They even beat UK's reigning national champs in the 1999 season. Howland wasn't starting over from scratch completely. It's not like what Ray inherited at MSU.

CentralMSDawg
03-24-2015, 08:46 AM
I got some pretty legit confirmation on what I already thought this morning. This decision came from MSU president Mark Keenam. The AD had the choice to go along with it or Keenum would find someone who would. Our AD Stricklin acted like a man who was going to give Ray another year in recent interviews. My guess is some boosters helped Keenum change his mind and they went for Howland.

Dawgilicious
03-24-2015, 11:34 AM
I still believe they knew they had Howland before they fired Ray. Look how fast he got that job...lol

GDawg88
03-24-2015, 01:11 PM
I disagree. Cal won at Pitt under Evans. Ralph Willard did decent too. They even beat UK's reigning national champs in the 1999 season. Howland wasn't starting over from scratch completely. It's not like what Ray inherited at MSU.
Before 2002, Pitt had not made an NCAA Tournament in nine years or a Sweet Sixteen in 28 years. They had their moments as a program, but MSU has had their moments, too -- most notably a Final Four appearance in 1996 and SEC championship in 2004. I just don't see how Pitt prior to Howland's arrival was head and shoulders above where MSU is now or historically. Most of Pitt's basketball tradition has been built in the last 15 years with Howland and Dixon.

kentubbybasketball
03-24-2015, 03:28 PM
I'm not saying it's head and shoulders above or below. My point simply is Howland didn't inherit a lemon at Pitt. They had some stuff established there with Willard before he came in. Plus, the city as a whole supported the program.

With what Ray inherited at MSU, that was a lemon. If anything he has stabilized the program more than it was three years ago.

NCMISSSTFAN
03-24-2015, 03:31 PM
No disrespect to Stansbury but Howland's resume is head and shoulders better. I'm talking about results on the court, not discipline issues, transfers etc. Howland has 3 final fours and 20 plus players in the NBA who played under him. On paper, there aren't alot of coaches in America with his resume other than probably Coach Cal, Coach K, Coach Boehim, Coach Williams.

NCMISSSTFAN
03-24-2015, 03:34 PM
Reports are that he is hiring Korey Mccray also, a former UCLA and LSU assistant who has pretty strong ties to the South and was also recruiting Malik Newman very hard. I think its very important what assistants get brought in, they make a huge impact on certain players.

Dawgilicious
03-24-2015, 04:43 PM
Reports are that he is hiring Korey Mccray also, a former UCLA and LSU assistant who has pretty strong ties to the South and was also recruiting Malik Newman very hard. I think its very important what assistants get brought in, they make a huge impact on certain players.

Not surprised by that at all. He has contacts in georgia so I assume MSU will pull some guys from the state. Not sold on his actual coaching, but just having him for recruiting should help. Did get Tony Parker and others to UCLA from the state

Wave&Dawgs
03-24-2015, 05:10 PM
I love the hire. After being out of the game for a few years, he should be refreshed and ready to go. Ray is a great guy, but I just don't think he had what it takes to get us to the next level.

To me, Ray was a nice transition coach. Someone who stabilized the program, but not once who could get it to the next level. Howland is a guy who can get it to the next level. This hire was a home run.

Wave&Dawgs
03-24-2015, 05:20 PM
And tubby, of course it's all about winning. Stans wasn't fired because of lack of discipline. He was fired because along with a lack of discipline, he stopped winning. Obviously msu willing trade a little discipline for winning. Any smart program would.

Nothing against Ray, but if you can replace him with a guy like Howland you just have to.

NCMISSSTFAN
03-24-2015, 06:01 PM
Not surprised by that at all. He has contacts in georgia so I assume MSU will pull some guys from the state. Not sold on his actual coaching, but just having him for recruiting should help. Did get Tony Parker and others to UCLA from the state

Yea I'm not too familiar with his coaching either, but I know he has strong ties and relationships with recruits, plus he is fairly young. Malik Newmans Dad mentioned him by name also.

NCMISSSTFAN
03-24-2015, 07:29 PM
I was impressed with his press conference.

kentubbybasketball
03-24-2015, 07:30 PM
And tubby, of course it's all about winning. Stans wasn't fired because of lack of discipline. He was fired because along with a lack of discipline, he stopped winning. Obviously msu willing trade a little discipline for winning. Any smart program would.

Nothing against Ray, but if you can replace him with a guy like Howland you just have to.
I'll just repeat what I said earlier. He better win (which is not guaranteed) otherwise this program is further in the hole. I understand how these things work. But this isn't replacing a Gillispie with a Calipari.

Howland has never been a great recruiter. He's simply done a good good at player development. How that factors in at MSU will be interesting. I'd imagine he is the oldest coach in the league or among them (over Cal by a year or two). How does that affect recruiting?

what happens when Howland stops winning in addition to player issues. UCLA dealt with after all.

Like I said, good luck.

kentubbybasketball
03-24-2015, 07:36 PM
No disrespect to Stansbury but Howland's resume is head and shoulders better. I'm talking about results on the court, not discipline issues, transfers etc. Howland has 3 final fours and 20 plus players in the NBA who played under him. On paper, there aren't alot of coaches in America with his resume other than probably Coach Cal, Coach K, Coach Boehim, Coach Williams.

Where would you rank him. Id say he also behind Pitino, Izzo, Donovan, Matta, Marshall, in addition to the guys you already mentioned. Not to mention the other guys that are in the next tier. All those NBA Draft picks and he still had losing records at UCLA and NCAAT misses.

It doesn't seem like a great fit from geography to the size of the town. Definitely for a program like MSU, it's an excitable hire, but I think Auburn landing Pearl is bigger.

Wave&Dawgs
03-24-2015, 07:46 PM
Obviously it's not guaranteed that he will win, but when you have a program in the shape ours is in and have a chance at a big name hire like this, you have to take that chance. Like I said ray was a nice transition guy who stabilized the program, but he just didn't look like a guy who was going to take us to the next level.

NCMISSSTFAN
03-24-2015, 07:50 PM
I'll just repeat what I said earlier. He better win (which is not guaranteed) otherwise this program is further in the hole. I understand how these things work. But this isn't replacing a Gillispie with a Calipari.

Howland has never been a great recruiter. He's simply done a good good at player development. How that factors in at MSU will be interesting. I'd imagine he is the oldest coach in the league or among them (over Cal by a year or two). How does that affect recruiting?

what happens when Howland stops winning in addition to player issues. UCLA dealt with after all.

Like I said, good luck.

You know I respect your opinion as always, but I'm suprised at your reaction to this hire. Honestly I really wanted Ray to stay at least one more year he deserved it, but I guess I have to move on and who gets a shot at a guy with Howlands resume? You roll the dice with a guy like him, yea there were certain issues at UCLA but nothing to out of hand. If you get a chance go listen to his press conference:

http://espn.go.com/watchespn/index/_/id/2425152/mississippi-state-coaching-announcement#type/replay/

NCMISSSTFAN
03-24-2015, 07:55 PM
Where would you rank him. Id say he also behind Pitino, Izzo, Donovan, Matta, Marshall, in addition to the guys you already mentioned. Not to mention the other guys that are in the next tier. All those NBA Draft picks and he still had losing records at UCLA and NCAAT misses.

It doesn't seem like a great fit from geography to the size of the town. Definitely for a program like MSU, it's an excitable hire, but I think Auburn landing Pearl is bigger.

In the league the only Coaches I put him behind are Cal and Donovan. But on a bigger scale he would surely be in my top 10-15. He coached at UCLA for 10 years for a reason, I wasn't sure about the hire initially but the more research I do and the more I hear him talk I am starting to like it.

Your right, some of his recruits were under the radar guys like Westbrook and Collison, but he turned them into great pros. He's also had his share of McDonalds All American players too.

NCMISSSTFAN
03-24-2015, 08:00 PM
Where would you rank him. Id say he also behind Pitino, Izzo, Donovan, Matta, Marshall, in addition to the guys you already mentioned. Not to mention the other guys that are in the next tier. All those NBA Draft picks and he still had losing records at UCLA and NCAAT misses.

It doesn't seem like a great fit from geography to the size of the town. Definitely for a program like MSU, it's an excitable hire, but I think Auburn landing Pearl is bigger.

Its hard for me to place him in an order, but he is definetly in that 2nd tier class of coaches behind Cal, Pitino, Donovan, Williams, Boehim, Coach K, Tom Izzo. The only reason he isn't in their class IMO is because he doesn't have that National Championship that they all do.

Bama_Man
03-24-2015, 08:16 PM
How would you place him ahead of Bill Self, who has a ton of Final Fours and a National Title?

CentralMSDawg
03-24-2015, 08:26 PM
I'll just repeat what I said earlier. He better win (which is not guaranteed) otherwise this program is further in the hole. I understand how these things work. But this isn't replacing a Gillispie with a Calipari.

Howland has never been a great recruiter. He's simply done a good good at player development. How that factors in at MSU will be interesting. I'd imagine he is the oldest coach in the league or among them (over Cal by a year or two). How does that affect recruiting?

what happens when Howland stops winning in addition to player issues. UCLA dealt with after all.

Like I said, good luck.

Okay then.

Wave&Dawgs
03-24-2015, 08:27 PM
Tubby, I have to ask, are you reacting negatively to this move because you think it was a bad move by MSU, or because you really liked Ray and wanted to see him get more of a shot? Not trying to imply anything, I just want to get where you are coming from.

kentubbybasketball
03-24-2015, 08:30 PM
You know I respect your opinion as always, but I'm suprised at your reaction to this hire. Honestly I really wanted Ray to stay at least one more year he deserved it, but I guess I have to move on and who gets a shot at a guy with Howlands resume? You roll the dice with a guy like him, yea there were certain issues at UCLA but nothing to out of hand. If you get a chance go listen to his press conference:

http://espn.go.com/watchespn/index/_/id/2425152/mississippi-state-coaching-announcement#type/replay/I respect you too. I'm closer to you than anybody else on the board, and we have good talks away from basketball. Ive always looked up to you like a big brother to me, and I hope it works out because I love you as a person.

That said I disagree. His situation at UCLA was very out of hand. Who fires a guy with a three peat of Final fours without off the court stuff being out of hand. He has Bill Walton on ESPN telecasts calling for his job. He had players peeing on other players' stuff. I mean it was very out of hand. Everybody deserves second chances.

kentubbybasketball
03-24-2015, 08:32 PM
How would you place him ahead of Bill Self, who has a ton of Final Fours and a National Title?
Fwiw, he has final fours than Self. Those artificial numbers don't mean as much to me tho.

NC, I think top 11-20 is fair for Howland.

kentubbybasketball
03-24-2015, 08:37 PM
Tubby, I have to ask, are you reacting negatively to this move because you think it was a bad move by MSU, or because you really liked Ray and wanted to see him get more of a shot? Not trying to imply anything, I just want to get where you are coming from.

I like Ray. I wish we had a spot on our staff for him. I think it's very bush league to just fire him like this because you think you have a better coach. I get why it was done, but it doesn't mean it is right or fair. Strickland gets a pass for making the questionable hire three years ago, yet Ray is the one that's fired

I hope Ray comes back with a vengeance wherever he ends up.

GDawg88
03-24-2015, 08:56 PM
NC, I think top 11-20 is fair for Howland.
Isn't that a great hire for a school like Mississippi State?

My only concern with Howland would be if he still has the commitment and passion at age 57 that he had a decade ago. But age doesn't seem to be slowing down guys like Coach K, Izzo, and Pitino.

CentralMSDawg
03-24-2015, 08:56 PM
I do actually feel bad for Ray as he was put in a near impossible position. In the end I think the move was made for two reasons. This year's team regressed from last year and then of course a coach with a resume like Howland's became available. I know the move for Howland was underway before Ray was fired, but it all came down to a business decision.

Regardless of if works out with Howland or not one thing is for sure. MSU now has a coach with a the proven track record which most people said a program in our situation couldn't get. I've seen the way MSU has spent money on athletics the last decade and figured with the right offer we could get a proven basketball coach. Now it's wait and see if it works out.

Wave&Dawgs
03-24-2015, 08:56 PM
Who were Stricklin's better options three years ago though? MSU was a pretty toxic situation at the time and it seemed like we really weren't getting much interest from good, experienced coaches. I don't know how much of that you can really put on Stricklin. He had to hire someone, and Ray seemed like the best of a bunch of mediocre options.

To me, I don't see how it's really bush league. I'd rather fire him now if we have a better coach in hand than risk waiting a year or two and maybe not having as good a replacement option at that time. By your estimation, he is a top 20 coach. When you are Mississippi State you don't pass up on the chance to land a top 20 coach. Even if it is bush league (which I don't think it is) sometimes you have to do what you have to do.

NCMISSSTFAN
03-24-2015, 09:04 PM
I respect you too. I'm closer to you than anybody else on the board, and we have good talks away from basketball. Ive always looked up to you like a big brother to me, and I hope it works out because I love you as a person.

That said I disagree. His situation at UCLA was very out of hand. Who fires a guy with a three peat of Final fours without off the court stuff being out of hand. He has Bill Walton on ESPN telecasts calling for his job. He had players peeing on other players' stuff. I mean it was very out of hand. Everybody deserves second chances.

Likewise bro and I appreciate it!!!!

And I actually do remember the time that Walton made those comments about him, but serious question, what all did he do to get fired? Is there something that I am missing?

NCMISSSTFAN
03-24-2015, 09:06 PM
How would you place him ahead of Bill Self, who has a ton of Final Fours and a National Title?

I actually forgot to mention Self, but I personally would take the guys I mentioned ahead of Self.

NCMISSSTFAN
03-24-2015, 09:08 PM
Yeah, I feel bad for Ray also, he was a great guy with high character for us. If you followed his twitter he supported everything MSU. I have a feeling he will end up at a nice place even if its as an assistant.

kentubbybasketball
03-24-2015, 09:09 PM
Isn't that a great hire for a school like Mississippi State?

My only concern with Howland would be if he still has the commitment and passion at age 57 that he had a decade ago. But age doesn't seem to be slowing down guys like Coach K, Izzo, and Pitino.

Those guys have well-oiled machines now. It's a but easier when you have been somewhere 35 yrs (K), 30 yrs (Izzo), and 14 yrs (P).

Again, I'm not saying he's not a good hire. I'm just saying it's highly questionable.

kentubbybasketball
03-24-2015, 09:13 PM
Likewise bro and I appreciate it!!!!

And I actually do remember the time that Walton made those comments about him, but serious question, what all did he do to get fired? Is there something that I am missing?

I'd have to read it all to remember it all. I'll just say if it's like UCLA you'll be tired of his *****ly manner soon.

Wave, we just won't agree. It's bush league. You hired somebody to a terrible situation and gave very little support, which is clear after firing him for 3 years. Sure you "had" to hire Howland, but don't you have to have principles too?

Wave&Dawgs
03-24-2015, 09:53 PM
I'd rather be a little "bush league" and win than have principles and lose. Sometimes you have to make tough decisions. Did Ray get a raw deal? Maybe. But in year 3 with a full roster, you can't keep having the kind of losses we had this season. If we'd shown more improvement this year, I don't think we'd have been sniffing around for other coaches. And if Howland doesn't come along, Ray is probably still here.

This is certainly an odd way to switch coaches, but I think it took a perfect storm of events to get here.

MKfromPA
03-25-2015, 11:40 AM
Congrats on the hire of Ben Howland. He's a great coach. I believe he is the right hire to take MSU back to winning basketball. Howland's coaching resume only says so. He led Pittsburgh to consistency and took UCLA to 3 consecutive Final Four appearances. There may be a few year waiting period for results, but IMO it is worth it. Congrats again, MSU.

msudawg4life
03-26-2015, 05:57 PM
Actually Tubby....I'd been saying since last year to ppl I know I didn't think Ray was the right person to take MSU back to it's winning ways. I've been to alot of games since Ray started coaching and personally i've witnessed the drop off in attendence and support. Ray has most def stabalized the program and I believe the Senior leadership that MSU has will help Coach H transition into the job nicely. I think this is all possible because of how Ray has brought up this group of guys and tought them there is alot more to the game then just playing the game and winning. Alot of Universities do this though...bring in a guy to stablize their program then get the next one to bring it back toward where they want it to be.

msudawg4life
03-26-2015, 05:58 PM
the year after he left UCLA his group of players went to the sweet sixteen...so it's not like when he left the place was in utter turmoil.

kentubbybasketball
03-26-2015, 06:35 PM
4life, that's my point, bro. He won the Pac 12 his final year AND WAS STILL FIRED. As you say they won the year after that too, because he didn't leave a mess behind in terms of basketball. However, if you are firing a winning coach (which MSU did three years ago with Stansbury) it says a lot about how bad the situation is away from the court... and it was at UCLA no matter how you slice it.

As I said, I get it with Ray. It doesn't make it right. It doesn't make it fair. Lastly, it doesn't guarantee that Howland is the end-all, be-all answer. I get it though. I realy do.

Wave&Dawgs
03-26-2015, 11:26 PM
Tubby, I don't think anyone is saying Howland is the be-all end-all answer. All anyone is saying that when a program like msu has a chance at a coach like Ben Howland, you have to take that chance. Obviously that doesn't guarantee us anything, but I'm glad our administration is trying to do what it takes to win.

kentubbybasketball
03-26-2015, 11:31 PM
I feel like we're talking in circles. I get all of that. I do.

NCMISSSTFAN
03-27-2015, 09:26 AM
4life, that's my point, bro. He won the Pac 12 his final year AND WAS STILL FIRED. As you say they won the year after that too, because he didn't leave a mess behind in terms of basketball. However, if you are firing a winning coach (which MSU did three years ago with Stansbury) it says a lot about how bad the situation is away from the court... and it was at UCLA no matter how you slice it.

As I said, I get it with Ray. It doesn't make it right. It doesn't make it fair. Lastly, it doesn't guarantee that Howland is the end-all, be-all answer. I get it though. I realy do.

I hear you KT, but coaching at UCLA is like coaching at UK, UNC, Duke, etc. There is a thin line at these schools for anything negative, whether its on the court or off the court. Guys like Kareem Abdul Jabar, Bill Walton, John Wooden etc are from this school. You can't soley judge Howland on getting fired there. Expectations are very different at a school like UCLA, He won't have those expectations here, or that kind of pressure, the same way he didn't at Pitt. He was quoted saying that this would be his best job coaching ever during his press conference. And I think once he gets his guys in (Which he has already started doing and is on his way to Canada this weeked for recruiting), he will have MSU back to our winning ways.

kentubbybasketball
03-27-2015, 12:10 PM
I'll give him time.

NCMISSSTFAN
03-27-2015, 12:27 PM
I'll give him time.

You were a Ray fan, and so was I. Maybe that is why you feel some of what you do? What issues do you see that would cause Howland to fail?

NCMISSSTFAN
03-27-2015, 12:39 PM
Honestly, taking a step back and looking at the situation.....putting my feelings aside from Ray being fired, I don't see any possible candidate that can come close to Howland as an on the court basetball coach.... And its not even close in my opinion. He steps into the league as probably a top 3 coach behind Cal and Donovan. Numbers don't lie, and he has taken alot of teams to Sweet 16's, Elite 8's and Final 4's. And has done it with hard nosed players who he molded. He doesn't necassarily need 5 star guys to win, he needs his style of players and he has proven that at every stop.

There was a time in the 2000's where we were right there with Florida and UK consistently, I truly feel Howland will have us back in that mix along with Arkansas and probably Auburn because of Pearl. The SEC has some really good coaches in the league now and I'm excited to see who Alabama gets also.

kentubbybasketball
03-27-2015, 03:26 PM
You were a Ray fan, and so was I. Maybe that is why you feel some of what you do? What issues do you see that would cause Howland to fail?

First off, he's quite unlikable. Very few people at UCLA liked him as a person. He was very rude to people and acted pompous at times. He's undefeated right now, so you guys love him, but the stories of how he ostracized people at UCLA are legendary. Also, his style of play is not appeasing at all. He talks about how his last UCLA team led the Pac 12 in scoring (sure), but one year does not make a trend. What he did over the course of Pitt and UCLA is a trend, and he plays halfcourt. That's fine if that's the only way you have to win, but why recruit Darren Collison and Russell Westbrook if you want a plodding style.

Also, geographically I think he will struggle with recruiting, even if he does hire McCray. WHen you add to the fact that other programs play better styles, it could be tough to recruit top tier guys. He'll have to get some diamonds in the rough like Luc Richard Mbah a Moute, and that's just not easy to do.

kentubbybasketball
03-27-2015, 03:31 PM
Honestly, taking a step back and looking at the situation.....putting my feelings aside from Ray being fired, I don't see any possible candidate that can come close to Howland as an on the court basetball coach.... And its not even close in my opinion. He steps into the league as probably a top 3 coach behind Cal and Donovan. Numbers don't lie, and he has taken alot of teams to Sweet 16's, Elite 8's and Final 4's. And has done it with hard nosed players who he molded. He doesn't necassarily need 5 star guys to win, he needs his style of players and he has proven that at every stop.

There was a time in the 2000's where we were right there with Florida and UK consistently, I truly feel Howland will have us back in that mix along with Arkansas and probably Auburn because of Pearl. The SEC has some really good coaches in the league now and I'm excited to see who Alabama gets also.

I disagree on a number of things.

*I don't think he's top three. I would say Pearl is better for sure. If you're giving Howland credit for doing more with less, Pearl did it on the D-2 level and the midmajor level at UW-M. Who knows who ends up at Alabama and Tennessee also. People are quick to mention three straight final fours to defend Howland, and that is impressive, but how much credit can you give him for that and ignore the fault of the seasons directly after it? Pearl has consistently won every year, excpet for his first at Auburn.

*Plus, the idea that he doesn't need five stars to win seems a bit unfounded to me. Granted, he never had 9 McDonald's AA on a team like Coach K has this year, but each of those winning UCLA teams always had five star guys.

Bama_Man
03-27-2015, 08:20 PM
I disagree on a number of things.

*I don't think he's top three. I would say Pearl is better for sure. If you're giving Howland credit for doing more with less, Pearl did it on the D-2 level and the midmajor level at UW-M. Who knows who ends up at Alabama and Tennessee also. People are quick to mention three straight final fours to defend Howland, and that is impressive, but how much credit can you give him for that and ignore the fault of the seasons directly after it? Pearl has consistently won every year, excpet for his first at Auburn.

*Plus, the idea that he doesn't need five stars to win seems a bit unfounded to me. Granted, he never had 9 McDonald's AA on a team like Coach K has this year, but each of those winning UCLA teams always had five star guys.

We agree.

I cannot put him ahead of Billy D (two national titles, two other Final Four trips, etc..), Cal (won a national title, front runner for number two this year), and arguably Pearl although I feel Pearl is overrated. As a pure Xs and Os coach, Howland is better, but as KT said people dislike him because of his attitude and he may not get the most out of the players because they hate him.

NCMISSSTFAN
03-28-2015, 12:42 PM
That's why we all have opinions. I personally feel he will be one of the best coaches in the SEC. Hands down....he has won everywhere he's been. He also address the rumors of ex players not liking him during his press conference. ...I truly have that feeling he will get us back

NCMISSSTFAN
03-28-2015, 12:47 PM
http://mississippistate.scout.com/story/1532129-howland-hires-brooks-mccray-and-zeigler?s=136

He put together a pretty good staff too

msudawg4life
03-28-2015, 01:21 PM
We will see.....unlike Stans...Howland had not regressed at UCLA....he brought in good players and developed them for the NBA which is proven by the number of players that have gone on to play In the NBA who played under him. Nice,mean,rude....I could care less what he is...if he gets us wins and develops the kids for their future in the league he is doing his job. Doing this at each school he has been at is proof he is doing SOMETHING right. Dispute it however you want...it's easy to look down on the coaching hire of a program like MSU when you cheer for a basketball program like UK. I have a feeling this turn in attitude(tubby) has do do with more then just basketball. But like was mentioned...MSU would be complete fools if they didn't jump at the chance to hire a coach with this guys resume. We will just have to wait and see how it goes as far as recruiting to come to Starkville...but honestly Pittsburgh isn't like a huge draw either and he had success getting kids to come there.

kentubbybasketball
03-28-2015, 02:29 PM
Clearly, you are getting mad, so I won't push it much further. People simply kept asking me questions, quoting my posts, and mentioning me, so I responded. My opinion has nothing to do with Kentucky or being a UK fan,and nobody is looking down on your hire. I don't see what's so hard to understand about that. My most opinionated comments have been about firing Ray, not hiring Howland. I don't know how to say it 8.2 million different ways. I don't even know how to even address your dig at me about a "turn in attitude" having "to do with more than just basketball." No need to overanlyze it. It's simply my opinion.

End of the day, your point is not completely accurate. Howland did stop winning. He did in fact regress, and that's why people could no longer overlook how rude he was there. Look at his run from 2009-2013. People keep harping on him ending with a Pac 12 title his last year, but he had losing records and no NCAAT invites also during that stretch after the final four. As you say, dispute it if you want, but facts are facts at the end of the day. And, I will contend that if the same thing happens at MSU (he wins some and then not as much), you will turn your back on him.... you've done it before with Stansbury case in point. Personality does matter when you're not winning. Look at a Bob Knight. Even he couldn't last too long treating people the way he did at Indiana. Same thing with Billy Gillispie at Kentucky.

And, don't compare Pittsburgh (a major metropolitan area with known basketball history in John Calipari, Skip Prosser, Archie Miller, Sean Miller, TJ McConnell, Suzie McConnell-Serio, etc). to Starkville.

kentubbybasketball
03-28-2015, 02:38 PM
http://mississippistate.scout.com/story/1532129-howland-hires-brooks-mccray-and-zeigler?s=136

He put together a pretty good staff too
THat is indeed a good staff, and keeping Brooks is nice, too. I think he might help more immediately with recruiting than even McCray will. I remember us (the Gophers) playing against Zeigler when he was the head coach at Central Michigan. They gave us a tough game. From an Xs and Os standpoint, he'll be the right hand man.

NC, in response to you saying he's won everywhere, I think any coach at this level has won everywhere they've been. You don't get to this level if you're a constant failure. Ben Howland will be fine, espeically if he's learned from his mistakes. Player accountability (which has been a major issue at MSU over the past 17 years minus the three years with Ray) will need to be one of those improvements. Howland has not "won" in that arena in the past.

georgiaguy31015
03-28-2015, 06:31 PM
A very nice hire for MSU. Maybe even a homerun hire. Will be interesting to watch in the future.

CentralMSDawg
03-28-2015, 10:07 PM
A particular UK keeps talking about how Ray was fired after three years and how Stans was let go even though he was winning. I guess Billy Gillispie being fired after just two years from UK with a winning record is different. I mean UK is UK and well everyone else isn't so that makes it okay. I know Gillispie imploded at Texas Tech, but all the man did was win at UK.

kentubbybasketball
03-28-2015, 11:20 PM
Gillispie was fired because he was rude, too. Same as Howland. You can't compare Ray to Gillispie. That's rude to Ray.

msudawg4life
03-28-2015, 11:25 PM
I'm pretty sure any school is the same way...if a coach does not meet expectations he gets fired....If down the road Howland does not live up to expectations then yea...can his ass...lol. I have yet to say he will be the almighty answer to our problems of getting W's in the win column...but I think its a good hire for our school at this time...def nothing to lose on our parts. Ok Tubby..do you honestly believe Ray would of been able to recruit the pieces needed to compete in the SEC at MSU?? And I have family in Pittsburgh...I've been there a lot...besides the sheer size and population....it's def not like a shining jewel or anything....

kentubbybasketball
03-28-2015, 11:27 PM
And Starkville is even further from a shining jewel.

I get that you think it's a good hire. I'm confused: did I ever say it wasnt?





No

msudawg4life
03-28-2015, 11:36 PM
Naw you just post like your pissed off we fired Ray...the fan of another school is pissed off we fired our coach....and you dig up anything you can think of to down our new coach and talk about nothing positive...just rubs off the wrong way. But it's all good..Interested in your answer about Ray...and you are right...Starkville isn't even a jewel...lmao....but it is a nice place to come watch a baseball game...recently a football game and raise a family.

kentubbybasketball
03-28-2015, 11:40 PM
What am I digging up that isn't common knowledge?

Let me ask why do you think Howland was fires given his resume???

msudawg4life
03-28-2015, 11:46 PM
From what I have read it had to do with some bullying in his locker room and he looked the other way. And some of the higher ups wanted him ouT. So what about my question to you about Ray?

kentubbybasketball
03-29-2015, 12:04 AM
Exactly, so don't point the finger at me for questioning your hire since that's similar why you fired one of your most successful coaches ever three years ago. It's not digging up anything, it's actually looking at the guy's resume. You can't take the final fours and just ignore the rest of the resume. Or you could and end up frustrated later when the same thing happens at MSU maybe.

As for Rick Ray, sure why couldn't he recruit SEC level players. The roster was clearly stabilized (to use my word earlier in the thread). As he continued to get support (which he never got), who's to say he couldn't have had gotten better players down the road. Recruiting was already better than it was two years ago.

msudawg4life
03-29-2015, 12:12 AM
We will see...from what I have seen in his pressers lately and radio interviews he says he has learned a lot over past few years out of the coaching box. Things he will use to change some things he did wrong before. Ppl deserve another chance. He has at least brought some excitement back to the basketball side of things at MSU..now its up to.him to follow through and build it back to where it was when we used to.pack the hump and actually care about turning the TV on to watch games. At times this year Ray had his guys play well...but then there were also times...more then not that they looked absolutely terrible. I don't believe Ray had what it takes to get the talent we needed in Starkville to compete in the NCAA tourney...let alone vs teams in the SEC East...

kentubbybasketball
03-29-2015, 12:19 AM
What do you expect Howland to say? "I am going to be the same way that got me fired at UCLA?" Hopefully, he has learned. As I said earlier, and you just said, people do deserve second chances. For your sake I hope he wins, because I like it when you come around here to talk hoops (even though you're often in disagreement with me... your choice to be wrong I suppose. lol jk). I really do hope he wins, because there's nothing like the MSU fan base.

As for Ray, consider Coach K, who inherited a program that was in the title game two years prior at Duke. He struggled a lot and didn't really get his first great class until 1982. Perhaps Ray could have if he was given more time. Clearly, he had something that made him an attractive candidate to begin with.

Wave&Dawgs
03-29-2015, 01:43 PM
Another important point on Howland is that he won't have the same type of expectations at MSU that he had at UCLA. At UCLA, they are held to the standard of making final fours an winning national titles. At MSU, if he just gets us to the tourney most years and gets us to a sweet 16 every once in a while that will be enough to keep the fans happy. And I feel like that is a very reasonable level of success to expect from a coach of his caliber.

Herchel
03-29-2015, 01:50 PM
Another important point on Howland is that he won't have the same type of expectations at MSU that he had at UCLA. At UCLA, they are held to the standard of making final fours an winning national titles. At MSU, if he just gets us to the tourney most years and gets us to a sweet 16 every once in a while that will be enough to keep the fans happy. And I feel like that is a very reasonable level of success to expect from a coach of his caliber.
Isn't that what Stansbury did?

Wave&Dawgs
03-29-2015, 01:57 PM
Isn't that what Stansbury did?

No. We never once made the sweet 16 under Stansbury (even as a 2 seed one year) and we failed to make the tourney his last 3 years here. Would have been his last 4 if not for a fluke SECT run in 09.

Wave&Dawgs
03-29-2015, 02:01 PM
As a matter of fact, we missed the tourney in 5 of his last 7 years here. And as I said, one of those two tourney appearances was in a year in which we would not have made the tourney without winning the SECT.

kentubbybasketball
03-29-2015, 02:31 PM
Isn't that what Stansbury did?

Stans is the best coach in the history of their program, but he never made the Sweet 16, but at the same time he had success there. Just like Howland did at UCLA. Neither could control their players though. MSU fans are turning a blind eye to it now, because he's undefeated. I think it's novel of them. I'd do the same thing if I were them. But, they've been warned about Howland. "Sean Miller" he is NOT.

So, to answer your question, yes, Stansbury at MSU is not any different than UCLA when Howland was there. UCLA is just on a higher level. Furthermore, getting to the Sweet 16 is not easy, and MSU fans are acting like it's going to be a birthright to happen. If he makes it, he will have earned it.

Wave&Dawgs
03-29-2015, 02:58 PM
Who is acting like it's easy or a birthright? All I have said is that he will need that sort of success (at least from time to time) to stay safe in his job long term. I would say pretty much any program in a power conference would have similar expectations of a head coach. Obviously it's not easy, but it's what he was hired to do, and we are hopeful it would happen.

As for Stans, yes he did have some success, but he didn't sustain it. After he lost the class with Lawrence Roberts, Shane Power, Timmy Bowers, and Winsome Frazier the program started to go downhill. As I said, only two tournaments in his last 7 years here, and we were an 8 seed and 13 seed with a second and first round exit. And even that isn't necesarily a horrible 7 year stretch, but combine it with all the issues with Renardo Sidney, mass transfers, fights in stands and such, it was time for him to go. I guess to you this makes us an entitled fanbase, but I don't see it.

kentubbybasketball
03-29-2015, 05:05 PM
Just fascinating looking back on it now, you say that about Stansbury ' s last seven years. When I said it then you guys gave me do much crap and called me an MSU hater. Now, you seem to agree... crazy how that works out.

Now I'm questioning Howland and the same thing.

Wave&Dawgs
03-29-2015, 07:10 PM
I criticized Stansbury a LOT for his lack of postseason success and his lackluster in-game coaching performances. You must have me confused with someone else.

And the reason you are receiving backlash in this thread is not because we are in denial that Howland could have shortcomings. It's because you seem overly bitter about this hire because if how it went down with getting rid of Ray.

You are acting like we are offended at the notion that Howland might not have success here. That's not why people are taking issue with your posts in this thread.

kentubbybasketball
03-29-2015, 08:42 PM
FWIW, I hope Rick Ray lands on his feet. Often times when people are done wrong, it's motivation.

msudawg4life
03-30-2015, 09:24 AM
Done wrong? lmao....the guy earned 3+ Million....I beleive he's in a better place now then he was before he came. He was hired to stabalize the program..he did it. Congratz Ray....maybe a spot will open up for him at UK. lol....It's all good...I realize Howland may not be the answer all...but It's always good to dream right Tubby? It would be nice to see MSU back in the ncaa tourney...and challenging teams around the SEC. Maybe Howland will do that...maybe he won't. It's one of those things we just won't know for a few years. I respect your opinion Tubby and agree that Howland is similar to Rick in certain areas...but as far as results go they are not even in the same arena on the same side of the world.

kentubbybasketball
03-30-2015, 03:38 PM
Done wrong? lmao....the guy earned 3+ Million....I beleive he's in a better place now then he was before he came. He was hired to stabalize the program..he did it. Congratz Ray....maybe a spot will open up for him at UK. lol....It's all good...I realize Howland may not be the answer all...but It's always good to dream right Tubby? It would be nice to see MSU back in the ncaa tourney...and challenging teams around the SEC. Maybe Howland will do that...maybe he won't. It's one of those things we just won't know for a few years. I respect your opinion Tubby and agree that Howland is similar to Rick in certain areas...but as far as results go they are not even in the same arena on the same side of the world.

What does $3 million have to do with it. Somebody can crash into me in a car accident, paralyze me, and I win a lawsuit that makes me a millionaire, but does that negate the fact that I was done wrong. NO! Of course that's a little extreme, but I also think your stance on how much he was being paid was wrong also.

I would actually love for Rick Ray to come here and have a spot on our staff. Of anybody that's coached at State this millenium, he's seemingly the best person.

The thing is Ray was hired and the program was in a mess. No argument. You gave him only two true years to get it fixed. He was clearly in the process of doing that, because as I've said the program is stabilized. Now, all of a sudden you realize Howland is free, so you just let Ray go without appreciating what he did to stabilize it. Howland was free last offseason, too, by the way. Why not go after him then?????????????????????????????????

And, I've never said Stansbury's career has been similar to Howland, other than they both had a modicum of success and were fired despite that.

msudawg4life
03-30-2015, 05:30 PM
Rick Ray is in a much better situation now then he was before MSU...he's been a head coach @ an SEC school that was in shambles...he has brought a form of stability to MSU's basketball program and earned himself alot more $$ then he would of at his last location. Now he has some head coaching expierence and should have no problem finding a new job since he is such a great coach according you.

Look Tubby...I get you can't stand Howland...I get you hate that MSU didn't let Ray hang around and possibly do something big...or possibly just have sub .500 seasons. But there is no reason to continue to belittle MSU and it's Atheltic Decisions when you have nothing to do with the school. Be happy for me and the few other MSU fans on this site because for the first time in quite awhile we are excited about our program...sure it may blow over and end up being a dud...but for now let us enjoy the FACT that we have a coach who has a track record of getting good talent and getting his teams to the NCAA tourney...

Thanks

Wave&Dawgs
03-30-2015, 06:36 PM
What does $3 million have to do with it. Somebody can crash into me in a car accident, paralyze me, and I win a lawsuit that makes me a millionaire, but does that negate the fact that I was done wrong. NO! Of course that's a little extreme, but I also think your stance on how much he was being paid was wrong also.

I would actually love for Rick Ray to come here and have a spot on our staff. Of anybody that's coached at State this millenium, he's seemingly the best person.

The thing is Ray was hired and the program was in a mess. No argument. You gave him only two true years to get it fixed. He was clearly in the process of doing that, because as I've said the program is stabilized. Now, all of a sudden you realize Howland is free, so you just let Ray go without appreciating what he did to stabilize it. Howland was free last offseason, too, by the way. Why not go after him then?????????????????????????????????

And, I've never said Stansbury's career has been similar to Howland, other than they both had a modicum of success and were fired despite that.

How do you know that we didn't go after him last year? Or that he was even looking for work last year? I feel like had Ben Howland wanted a job last offseason, someone would have given him one.

Wave&Dawgs
03-30-2015, 06:39 PM
Rick Ray is in a much better situation now then he was before MSU...he's been a head coach @ an SEC school that was in shambles...he has brought a form of stability to MSU's basketball program and earned himself alot more $$ then he would of at his last location. Now he has some head coaching expierence and should have no problem finding a new job since he is such a great coach according you.

Look Tubby...I get you can't stand Howland...I get you hate that MSU didn't let Ray hang around and possibly do something big...or possibly just have sub .500 seasons. But there is no reason to continue to belittle MSU and it's Atheltic Decisions when you have nothing to do with the school. Be happy for me and the few other MSU fans on this site because for the first time in quite awhile we are excited about our program...sure it may blow over and end up being a dud...but for now let us enjoy the FACT that we have a coach who has a track record of getting good talent and getting his teams to the NCAA tourney...

Thanks

Check your rep.

kentubbybasketball
03-30-2015, 07:40 PM
How do you know that we didn't go after him last year? Or that he was even looking for work last year? I feel like had Ben Howland wanted a job last offseason, someone would have given him one.

It is common news that Howland was disappointed in being passed over for jobs last summer, and that he didn't want to be out of coaching last year.

kentubbybasketball
03-30-2015, 07:43 PM
Rick Ray is in a much better situation now then he was before MSU...he's been a head coach @ an SEC school that was in shambles...he has brought a form of stability to MSU's basketball program and earned himself alot more $$ then he would of at his last location. Now he has some head coaching expierence and should have no problem finding a new job since he is such a great coach according you.

Look Tubby...I get you can't stand Howland...I get you hate that MSU didn't let Ray hang around and possibly do something big...or possibly just have sub .500 seasons. But there is no reason to continue to belittle MSU and it's Atheltic Decisions when you have nothing to do with the school. Be happy for me and the few other MSU fans on this site because for the first time in quite awhile we are excited about our program...sure it may blow over and end up being a dud...but for now let us enjoy the FACT that we have a coach who has a track record of getting good talent and getting his teams to the NCAA tourney...

Thanks

Why would you feel belittled? We are all talking hoops and giving opinions.

msudawg4life
03-31-2015, 09:16 AM
When you historically are know to be a MSU hater then it's not just talking hoops when you just continue to throw negative after negative post MSU's way.

I'm going to move past this though because I don't feel you and I going back and forth on this will get anywhere in a positive way. You may be right about the whole thing but you may be wrong...time will tell. But usually it's easy to look at the negative side of things when you are historically knows to dislike our program. I still respect your opinion so I will take it more as a warning in the back of my mind that you are trying to look our for us???? lol...thinking outside the box on that one..but wishful thinking.

Going to try to be back posing more...know I've been away for awhile. Lots has been going on with work and the family. My wife and I are expecting our 2nd child anytime now. With a 3 yr old already life is busy. Hope things have been going well for you Tub and the rest of my fellow MSU posters.

msudawg4life
03-31-2015, 09:20 AM
What do all think are the chances of MSU returning to the NCAA Tourney with Howland now? If so how long...and would Ray of had the same success if he had been given another year? Thoughts?

msudawg4life
03-31-2015, 09:22 AM
Check your rep.


Maybe...who knows.

kentubbybasketball
03-31-2015, 03:51 PM
I have nothing more to say. I already have an idea of what the 'rep' comment says. You guys can think what you want to think. I'm done talking about MSU, because of the implications of what you two are saying and thinking.

msudawg4life
03-31-2015, 04:43 PM
You are right Tubby....not acceptable. My appologies for even entertaining the idea.

Wave&Dawgs
03-31-2015, 05:25 PM
What do all think are the chances of MSU returning to the NCAA Tourney with Howland now? If so how long...and would Ray of had the same success if he had been given another year? Thoughts?

This is almost impossible to answer right now since we don't know what the roster will look like next season. If he can keep all the current guys as well as the incoming class though, I see no reason we couldn't be an NIT team this year and in the tourney the year after. And who knows, maybe he brings in some transfers as well.

CentralMSDawg
03-31-2015, 11:01 PM
What do all think are the chances of MSU returning to the NCAA Tourney with Howland now? If so how long...and would Ray of had the same success if he had been given another year? Thoughts?

I'm probably crazy for thinking this, but MSU could be in the tournament next year. If the roster stays intact it could be a possibility. The NIT is more likely and should be the expectation if all the players stay. I do think Ray would have gotten us to the NIT next year, but not sure if he would have ever gotten us any further.