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Herchel
03-21-2015, 01:40 PM
After 3 years

kentubbybasketball
03-21-2015, 02:22 PM
I like Scott Stricklin but does he deserve to make the next hire? When you hire a career assistant at a high major job you better be getting Tom Izzo. It was a questionable hire to begin with. I figure Ray had done enough in SEC play to warrant another year.

I think Bama is the better job. Interesting both schools were open in 1999 when they got Gottfried and Stansbury, who both won. Yet you fire them and end up in a worse situation .

Dawgilicious
03-21-2015, 02:26 PM
I guess you get what you deserve then. Like you said when you hire a career assistant you better hope it is a home run or it blows up in your face, like it did here

kentubbybasketball
03-21-2015, 02:27 PM
We will see what MSU values more. Stans won but there was little control and discipline. Ray had that but not the wins. Interesting to see what they go with here. You can have both. But would this be anybody's first option given how little patience there was for the last coach? He got two years. Two years. Don't tell me three. Two years!

Stansbury is available you'd think.

joehogjoe
03-21-2015, 02:33 PM
You can't go home again, usually.

kentubbybasketball
03-21-2015, 02:43 PM
Yeah. It was a joke. However, there is precedence with Mike Dement having done it. I don't think MSU would deal with the off-court issues again anyway. There's a reason they pushed him out considering he's their all-time winner and was good as an asst before that.

Herchel
03-21-2015, 04:03 PM
We will see what MSU values more. Stans won but there was little control and discipline. Ray had that but not the wins. Interesting to see what they go with here. You can have both. But would this be anybody's first option given how little patience there was for the last coach? He got two years. Two years. Don't tell me three. Two years!

Stansbury is available you'd think.
I think it was longer than 2 years.

kentubbybasketball
03-21-2015, 04:23 PM
He was there three years but I'm saying two because the first year everybody had left.

NCMISSSTFAN
03-21-2015, 05:20 PM
Exactly KT, it was two years. I'm torn by this decision, I can understand why it happened but I truly thought Ray was a good coach, he just never really had the talent there, but he deserved one more year IMO...he had a good class coming in

kentubbybasketball
03-21-2015, 05:27 PM
Yep. Plus he never embarrassed the school. Never.

I'd suspect Michael White to be a candidate since he knows the state from his Ole Miss days. Plus he's losing his great senior class at LA Tech in Appleby, Kyser, and Smith.

NCMISSSTFAN
03-21-2015, 05:31 PM
KT.... do you think Kenny Payne would be a candidate?

Herchel
03-21-2015, 05:44 PM
I Do not know enough about ball to judge coaches. I like or dislike based upon game demeanor and presses. Grant and Ray were two of my favorites.

Just Some Hog Dude
03-21-2015, 05:53 PM
You can't go home again, usually.

Ken Hatfield, Houston Nutt, Dave Van Horn, Mike Anderson

kentubbybasketball
03-21-2015, 06:37 PM
KT.... do you think Kenny Payne would be a candidate?
I hope not lol. He obvious is from the state and I hadn't considered him. I doubt MSU can afford to go with another assistant, even with Payne's resume, right after Ray's tenure was deemed a failure. That said, your AD Stricklin has UK connections, so who knows. Payne is the only assistant in the country with the kind of contract he has, so it'll take something big to pry him away from us.

steelyvan
03-22-2015, 10:38 AM
Was there something other than the W-L column that worked against CRR? Taking over the program in the state it was and only getting 3 years is very questionable. The program seemed to be trending in a positive direction.

NCMISSSTFAN
03-22-2015, 02:53 PM
I hope not lol. He obvious is from the state and I hadn't considered him. I doubt MSU can afford to go with another assistant, even with Payne's resume, right after Ray's tenure was deemed a failure. That said, your AD Stricklin has UK connections, so who knows. Payne is the only assistant in the country with the kind of contract he has, so it'll take something big to pry him away from us.

I remember a few years back he was being talked about alot before Ray was hired. But your right, I would assume we wouldnt hire another Assistant

NCMISSSTFAN
03-22-2015, 02:54 PM
Was there something other than the W-L column that worked against CRR? Taking over the program in the state it was and only getting 3 years is very questionable. The program seemed to be trending in a positive direction.

Nope, that was it, he just didn't win enough. He is a good man with high character, he just didn't win enough.

kentubbybasketball
03-22-2015, 03:03 PM
And if that's the case, it's sad because he wasn't given enough time.

XPS
03-22-2015, 06:59 PM
Ben Howland next coach?????

Dawgilicious
03-22-2015, 08:33 PM
Looks like Howland is the guy if he wants the job. maybe MSU knew he could be the guy and they ousted Ray?

kentubbybasketball
03-22-2015, 08:45 PM
He turns , down Tennessee last year but would accept this? I'd rather be at Bama honestly. I know he wants to coach again and wanted back in last summer to no avail. However, this would be settling. MSU has a good fanbase and decent facilities.

The SEC would have some names with Calipari, D, Pearl, Howland, Frank, etc.

CentralMSDawg
03-22-2015, 09:26 PM
When I first heard the news yesterday I was a little surprised. I like many State fans thought for sure Ray was going to have a fourth year. He had a strong rising senior class and a couple of good recruits coming in. I've heard Scott Stricklan in two interviews recently and he really seemed like an AD that was going to give Ray another year. Then the new about Howland comes out and some of the rumblings I've heard make sense. Some on the MSU boards are saying this move is from president Keenum more than from Stricklan. This could be due to the regression of the team this year or that Stricklan handles the hiring of Ray pretty much by himself and it didn't work out that well. I will find out more tomorrow from a source at work who knows everything that happens in Starkville.

As for Ray he was everything you want in a coach except he just couldn't get the wins. Fan support had also fallen to nothing and that had to factor into the decision. Ray absolutely stabilized the program and should be given credit for doing so. He also did it with integrity and discipline. Now the program just needs to move forward and build on the stability he brought back to it.

georgiaguy31015
03-22-2015, 09:30 PM
Howland would be a pretty big upgrade and I'm sure he will accept the job unless he's waiting to see what other offers come along.

kentubbybasketball
03-22-2015, 10:12 PM
If you want stability and discipline explain to me why Howland is the answer?????












He wins. That's why. He had less discipline at UCLA than Stansbury had at MSU.

kentubbybasketball
04-14-2015, 03:27 PM
Rick Ray has landed on his feet at SEMO as head coach. He will be just two hours away from me. I hope he makes MSU rue the day they fired him!

msudawg4life
04-14-2015, 05:40 PM
Awesome...best of luck to him...a bit diff then coaching in the SEC but still great news. Great guy!

NCMISSSTFAN
04-14-2015, 06:18 PM
I am happy for Ray! Well deserved!

kentubbybasketball
04-14-2015, 07:06 PM
I am happy for Ray! Well deserved!
Exactly. I can't think of anything negative to say about him. He'll be great on our part of the country and maybe appreciated in a way he perhaps wasn't before.

Wave&Dawgs
04-16-2015, 01:46 PM
How exactly wasn't he appreciated at MSU?

kentubbybasketball
04-16-2015, 03:22 PM
No disrespect but we've been down this road before.

Wave&Dawgs
04-16-2015, 05:29 PM
No, seriously, I'm legitimately curious as to how he was not appreciated. I think all of the fans and administration were more than appreciative of the way he brough discipline and stability to the program. Yes, he got fired, and that is the nature of the business sometimes, but that doesn't mean what he did there was not appreciated.

CentralMSDawg
04-16-2015, 09:43 PM
Congrats to Rick Ray on landing another head coaching job. He is a good guy and deserves a shot at another head gig.

NCMISSSTFAN
04-17-2015, 07:52 AM
No, seriously, I'm legitimately curious as to how he was not appreciated. I think all of the fans and administration were more than appreciative of the way he brough discipline and stability to the program. Yes, he got fired, and that is the nature of the business sometimes, but that doesn't mean what he did there was not appreciated.

I personally feel like Ray never really got full support from fans and alumni, in his three years there I can only remember a handful of games where the Hump was packed and loud like in previous years. He never really fully got the fan and alumni support, which is very important in recruiting and ticket sells. I don't think Howland will have that problem though, but it is unfortunate for Ray and if you followed Coach Ray on twitter, he was all about MSU, and the kids loved playing for him. I'm glad he's getting a second opportunity and I'll be pulling for him.

Wave&Dawgs
04-17-2015, 09:10 AM
I mean, can you really blame the fans for not spending their hard earned money on a losing product? There are probably very few fanbases in America that would pack the arena through three years of being a last place team.

If Howland comes in and we keep finishing in last place, I'd expect the arena to be just as empty for him. That doesn't mean anyone was unfair to or not supportive enough of Ray, it just means they responded to the product on the court.

NCMISSSTFAN
04-17-2015, 01:55 PM
I mean, can you really blame the fans for not spending their hard earned money on a losing product? There are probably very few fanbases in America that would pack the arena through three years of being a last place team.

If Howland comes in and we keep finishing in last place, I'd expect the arena to be just as empty for him. That doesn't mean anyone was unfair to or not supportive enough of Ray, it just means they responded to the product on the court.

I disagree there though because it was that way for Ray from day 1. The fans and support was never truly there, he was never given much of an opportunity from them or the alumni. And that's not taking sides, its just the truth. And even in down years, true fans stick with the team, regardless of records. But I do like the Howland hire and think it was one of the biggest hires we have ever made in terms of pedigree and notoriety. But truth be told, Ray never really fully got alot of support.

kentubbybasketball
04-17-2015, 03:27 PM
I personally feel like Ray never really got full support from fans and alumni, in his three years there I can only remember a handful of games where the Hump was packed and loud like in previous years. He never really fully got the fan and alumni support, which is very important in recruiting and ticket sells. I don't think Howland will have that problem though, but it is unfortunate for Ray and if you followed Coach Ray on twitter, he was all about MSU, and the kids loved playing for him. I'm glad he's getting a second opportunity and I'll be pulling for him.

Exactly. There's more to say to defend my assertion, but I won't invest the time.

NCMISSSTFAN
04-17-2015, 04:21 PM
Exactly. There's more to say to defend my assertion, but I won't invest the time.

Speak on it KT..

kentubbybasketball
04-17-2015, 05:28 PM
We can PM about it. I know that you won't misconstrue, twist, or misunderstand my points.

Wave&Dawgs
04-17-2015, 06:05 PM
We can PM about it. I know that you won't misconstrue, twist, or misunderstand my points.

Nice subtle dig there, Tub. I thought we had hashed everything out in our PM convo. I suppose not.

Wave&Dawgs
04-17-2015, 06:09 PM
I disagree there though because it was that way for Ray from day 1. The fans and support was never truly there, he was never given much of an opportunity from them or the alumni. And that's not taking sides, its just the truth. And even in down years, true fans stick with the team, regardless of records. But I do like the Howland hire and think it was one of the biggest hires we have ever made in terms of pedigree and notoriety. But truth be told, Ray never really fully got alot of support.

Let me put it this way. I don't think the fans gave Ray any less support than they would have given any other coach in the same situation. I think the truth is, MSU is more of a football and baseball school than it is a basketball school, and the fans will just never be excited about that program unless it's winning. Unlike with baseball and football, where they still pull good crowds even in down years.

Obviously Howland will get more buzz and support early because of his resume, but if it's his third year here and we are still a last place team, I'm sure the arena will be just as empty for games as it was with Ray.

Wave&Dawgs
04-17-2015, 06:23 PM
I also don't think it's fair to say the fans that didn't show up for the basketball games the last few year aren't true fans. In today's economy, people have to make tough choices with their discretionary income. Between the tickets, parking, concessions, etc, going to a sporting event isn't cheap. And when you have choices between spening money on seeing our #1 ranked football team, national championship baseball team, or cellar dwellar basketball team and can only afford to go to maybe one or two games a year, it's pretty clear which one wins out. No fan should be expected to shell out their hard earned money to go watch a bad product. And I'm sorry, but our basketball team the last 3 years was a really, really bad product. It just is what it is.

kentubbybasketball
04-17-2015, 06:34 PM
Nice subtle dig there, Tub. I thought we had hashed everything out in our PM convo. I suppose not.
We have. I just don't want to go down that road with you again. We are opposite ends of the continuum here. Nothing we say about Ray will matter to the other. With NC, it's not the case. You and I aren't even hearing what the other is saying, let's be honest. Lol